JP: Mistaken Identity Nova vs. Riponia
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Can I just ask (aware this is probably cleared up someone else in the 1000 posts I have to read now I'm back, but I haven't found it yet and it's thoroughly confusing me) are we allowed to use all city defences? So, for example, if someone manages somehow to capture a Novatainian city, the hardy citizens could launch guerilla strikes on the camp? I thought in the Matbaaic war they said everything had to be in orbats ...Prince Enrique wrote:Wait, do we get a chance to respond to that though? As in, the city defenses were able to take down most of the missiles etc etc.
And more importantly - Iehova, you're not playing very nicely. Or very confused ... I can't really dispute it now because I've been away, but I'll just put this to the judges just in case, cause otherwise you've killed all my armies just because you posted the wrong info ...
There were NO Tokidokians there. One was meant to be attacking from another city, but he hasn't showed. That was ME!!!!!!Iehova wrote:Suddenly, it was all go as the Tokidokians were there, and the Bobcats' EOTS systems had kicked in. As planned, Flt Lt. Gould and 9 other bobcats each let loose their barrage of 6 air-to-air missiles at each of the 10 Tokidokian fighters. In the same instant, 10 more Riponan fighters were concentrating on the 30 Novatainian bombers, each bomber receiving the gift of two finely crafted Riponian-made missiles.
Lucky for you, Babs is away, but I bet that because you said Tokidokian, he didn't know it was me, and so didn't respond.
Same thing again, Toki all over, when they're Novatainian's. And to think I'd thought "should I put go orders to my planes to fly away in the event of missiles?"Iehova again wrote:Given that each of the Tokidokian fighters had had to face the business end of 6 missiles, it isn't surprising that each of them had gone down in flames, Flt Lt. Gould thought to himself as he returned to base to re-fuel and re-arm.
The bombers had fared just as badly, except for the one lucky pilot who had managed - somehow - to avoid one of the missiles entirely and sustain minimum damage from the other. A quick burst of one of the Bobcat's 25mm cannon saw him off though. One more bomber pilot had somewhat miraculously, although lacking in engines of any sort, managed to keep a meagre amount of control of his aircraft. Those bombers wouldn't have been great gliders though, Gould thought, so it's unlikely that the pilot and crew would have survived.
****
The 20 Bobcats sent to apprehend the invading Tokidokian army came upon their enemy still making its way to New North Mehlville. A relatively small force, to be sure, but the Bobcat pilots knew that failure on their part would mean that the security of New North Mehlville and its citizens, who had been so kindly to them over the past days, would be in jeopardy.
It was with fighting spirit, then, that 120 air to ground missiles were fired almost in perfect tandem by the Bobcats and their pilots. 120 missiles headed straight into the heard of the Nova/Toki war machine. 120 missiles from the people of Riponia and New North Mehlville.
Summary:
Toki fighter wing destroyed. 120 missiles fired at toki infantry (&etc).
"No, both my enemies and Babs are competent enough to assume that."
...
And finally
You even put Novan Knights in the bottom and continue to say it was Tokidokian!All of the Riponian Bobcats had landed back at Ziffton now. At the base, Squadron Leader Hamden was briefing Joint Forces Command via video.
"Can you offer your report on the recent retaliations against Tokidokian attacks, Squadron Leader?" Fleet Admiral Mackintosh asked.
"Yes sir," replied Hamden, "attacks were initially made by 30 Bobcats on 30 incoming bombers and 10 incoming fighters. All enemy planes were shot down with no losses to our side.
"20 further Bobcats were sent to attack the incoming Tokidokian infantry, compromising - according to our intelligence - of 1,400 infantry, 100 'elite' combat veterans, 20 intelligence officers and a small number of medics, probably about 10.
"120 air-to-surface missiles were launched at the enemy infantry, who did not have the means to defend themselves. As a result of this, no more than a couple of veterans survived, along with perhaps two hundred infantry. We are not aware of any intelligence agents having survived, and a few medics were lucky enough to live through the assault. All surviving Tokidokians have routed faster than rats from sinking ships. More exact figures should be forthcoming, though."
"Very well, Squadron Leader," piped up Air Marshal (acting) Amos, "I want your men to remain on high alert, those b*stards might try something all over again, and if they do then by God I want your Bobcats fuelled up and ready to go."
"Yes Sir!"
*Click!*
Summary:
97 Novan Knights, 1,214 infantry, 20 NISB agents, 4 medics killed. All survivors have fled in disarray.
I know this is a petty ground to dispute on, and we can't ask Babs to find out if it's true or not, but since I posted the original attack, even saying it was odd to be in Tokidoi as a Novatainian force, and Iehova continued to fight "Tokidokians", that he was in fact fighting nobody? It's just somewhat annoying the majority of my army is gone because people are too incompetent to read which army is attacking them, and confuse the other people who are meant to be controlling the army since I was away.
Summary of dispute:
I posted an attack, with specific reference to being a Novatainian force in Tokidoki, and gave control to Babs.
Iehova responded to a Tokidokian force, which doesn't exist. I suspect this confused Babs, who then never suspected it was me who he should have been controlling, cause probably like most people he just read the summaries, which should really have said "Andreas' forces" not Tokidokians, because there are no Tokidokians.
Then Iehova continued to 24 hour rule and say Tokidokians, so nobody noticed. So, in essence, he responded to an army that wasn't there, and 24 houred an army that wasn't there ...
Last edited by Andreas the Wise on Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
Apparently not. He has some extra Orbat for city defences, its just back on his site, in a forum that is locked to outsiders.
Like our Civil Defence Charter, in the war room. Apparently we can use that as justification for fighting without an army stationed there.
Like our Civil Defence Charter, in the war room. Apparently we can use that as justification for fighting without an army stationed there.
"I fought the law, and the law won..."Why is it me who always has to tell them to stop whining like kids?
Alternatively, we attacked 40 aircraft and a couple of thousand men, believing them to be Tokidoki but our intelligence way flawed and they happen to be Novatainian. Whatever, I got it wrong, but people in the real world do that too, and it doesn't mean that the troops that were attacked, be they Tokidokian, Novatainian, Martian, Globecubicuecian or Amoeba-n, suddently disappear because intel happened to mis-identify them.Andreas the Wise wrote:Summary of dispute:
I posted an attack, with specific reference to being a Novatainian force in Tokidoki, and gave control to Babs.
Iehova responded to a Tokidokian force, which doesn't exist. I suspect this confused Babs, who then never suspected it was me who he should have been controlling, cause probably like most people he just read the summaries, which should really have said "Andreas' forces" not Tokidokians, because there are no Tokidokians.
Then Iehova continued to 24 hour rule and say Tokidokians, so nobody noticed. So, in essence, he responded to an army that wasn't there, and 24 houred an army that wasn't there ...
...And I don't underestimate Babs' intelligence. I hardly think that that single mistake is enough to completely throw him off now.
As for your aircraft flying away there was nothing they could have done in order to survive a barrage of 180 missiles. I took into account that the bombers might have been slightly luckier in the evasive manouvers etc. departments, seeing as they only had 2 missiles to contend with initially*, with the following:
The life of that last bomber's crew is in your hands Andreas...The bombers had fared just as badly, except for the one lucky pilot who had managed - somehow - to avoid one of the missiles entirely and sustain minimum damage from the other. A quick burst of one of the Bobcat's 25mm cannon saw him off though. One more bomber pilot had somewhat miraculously, although lacking in engines of any sort, managed to keep a meagre amount of control of his aircraft. Those bombers wouldn't have been great gliders though, Gould thought, so it's unlikely that the pilot and crew would have survived.
*of course, then had they survived they would have faced up to 60 more missiles, so the whole thing is really somewhat irrelevant.
I believe that Guido said that they, as with you, have to have the extra manpower to have those defences. You'll have to ask him.Sorongath wrote:Apparently not. He has some extra Orbat for city defences, its just back on his site, in a forum that is locked to outsiders.
Like our Civil Defence Charter, in the war room. Apparently we can use that as justification for fighting without an army stationed there.
Yes, because its so easy to keep track of OVER 13 Tokdokians and Novatainians running around the same area. Honestly. If you had got you post correct, we wouldn't be in this situation, babs would have know they were Andreas, and Andreas wouldn't have been screwed for the rest of the war. I'm sorry, but you need to make sure your posts are correct. Its YOUR fault, not Babs'...iehova wrote:...And I don't underestimate Babs' intelligence. I hardly think that that single mistake is enough to completely throw him off now.
King Lachlan
King of Novatainia
King of Novatainia
Sorongath wrote:Uhh guys... we should probably revive Enrique.
*Begins CPR*
KingJeremy wrote:I'm only a man Andreas, even with my godly looks
And, might I ask, why has the "Tokidokian" air group done nothing in retaliation? Generally you react when shot at. Apparently these "Tokidokians" saw they were fired upon, thought 'Oh, that's jolly of them' and continued to fly around in circles while Iehova shot them down at will.
Didn't it occur to you that the fighters might actually fight? Or that the bombers might throw down at the missile batteries attacking them?
Didn't it occur to you that the fighters might actually fight? Or that the bombers might throw down at the missile batteries attacking them?
"I fought the law, and the law won..."Why is it me who always has to tell them to stop whining like kids?
Imagine, if you will, that you're a Novatainian fighter pilot in the skies somewhere over Tokidoki/New North Mehlville. You have 6 missiles incoming. Your first priority is going to be to try and avoid the missiles that are about to blow you to smithereens, not to forget about them and try and retaliate in the few seconds you have left to live... Do be logical.Sorongath wrote:And, might I ask, why has the "Tokidokian" air group done nothing in retaliation? Generally you react when shot at. Apparently these "Tokidokians" saw they were fired upon, thought 'Oh, that's jolly of them' and continued to fly around in circles while Iehova shot them down at will.
Didn't it occur to you that the fighters might actually fight? Or that the bombers might throw down at the missile batteries attacking them?
Hm. I may not be underestimating Babs intelligence, but clearly you all are. The initial retaliatory move said the following:lachieboy wrote:Yes, because its so easy to keep track of OVER 13 Tokdokians and Novatainians running around the same area. Honestly. If you had got you post correct, we wouldn't be in this situation, babs would have know they were Andreas, and Andreas wouldn't have been screwed for the rest of the war. I'm sorry, but you need to make sure your posts are correct. Its YOUR fault, not Babs'...iehova wrote:...And I don't underestimate Babs' intelligence. I hardly think that that single mistake is enough to completely throw him off now.
Granted, this says Tokidokian instead of Novatainian (which comes from the commander being a 'lord' of Tokidoki, if I'm not mistaken?), but please. I suppose Babs could have confused the attack on Ziffton with all those other combined air and infantry assaults on New North Mehlville that were in progress at the time...From the desk of Tango: 50 of my fighters take off from their (previously secret) position at Ziffton, 30 armed with air to air missiles fly to engage the Tokidokian aircraft incoming on that city, and 20 armed with air-to-ground missiles move to attack the incoming Tokidokian infantry assault. With this resounding swoop i shall then request that Iehova take command of this mighty hoard and go forth to conquer......
...Oh wait, there was only one.
Babs was given just over 24 hours to respond to the attacks on the air assault force, and 48 hours to respond to the attacks on the invading infantry.
Last edited by iehova on Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry, guys, I don't like to rant over the internet, it makes me feel stupid in hindsight. Sorry.
Last edited by Sorongath on Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I fought the law, and the law won..."Why is it me who always has to tell them to stop whining like kids?
Yes, clearly it's bullsh*t, because Sorongath says it is! Clearly the Novatainian air force did not in the slightest bit have to worry about the 120 incoming missiles! They had all the time in the world to launch attacks of their own, because after all, it's only 120 missiles.Sorongath wrote:What the hell are you on about? You just sit there and claim that you shoot down an entire army's worth of planes without losses.
Don't patronise me, you're quite plainly being the unrealistic one.
And don't even think of replying with "6 missiles per plane yadda yadda."
It's bullsh*t.
In combat, they don't have time to divide up missiles.
It's not; "Okay, we have so many missiles to fire, we'll divide them up equally amongst the attacking craft."
It's "Oh God here they come, Fire! Fire! FIRE!"
Face.
And sorry, for that, everyone, It's not like me, but It's too good a rant to waste...
Oh, and maybe 'Novadokian' pilots panic when they go on an attack run, but by god ours don't. =/
Soro takes back his ranting, but not his opposition...
Last edited by Sorongath on Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I fought the law, and the law won..."Why is it me who always has to tell them to stop whining like kids?
What on earth are you on about? Ground crews? What ground crews were firing missiles?Sorongath wrote:Who said anything about panic? Sure I'd shit my pants about 120 missiles, so would any pilot, yours included. But that's not to say the the ground crews firing the missiles are in any better state.
If you're talking about Ziffton, the bombers wouldn't have reached their destination. Judging the taking off points and reasonable timings, they'd be just over halfway, possibly slightly more, to the city.That's bombers flying over them, and bombers with nothing to lose.
I refuse to contemplate it because they really _would_ have been taken out in one volley. If I hadn't said it enough, there were 120 missiles, and then a further 60 just in case any aircraft survived. If the missiles had been fired at completely random targets, the law of averages states that there would be 3 missiles inbound on each aircraft. Even that might only see 1 or 2 aircraft survive, as 1 or 2 aircraft _did_ under my attack (although the second was raked with machine gun fire, so didn't survive much longer; and the second may or may not have survived depending on whether Andreas says they did or not).I'm saying the whole flight wouldn't have been annihilated in a single volley, as you have claimed. I'm saying that since they wouldn't have been, there would have been opportunity to do damage back, something you refuse to contemplate. Deal with it.
So, yeah, if you want to adopt the 'targets were random' stance, do it. It doesn't change a jot. The targets were not selected randomly though, but through computer assisted targeting which can easily co-ordinate an attack against 40-odd aircraft.
I know exactly when you were saying, hence "on the attack run" - as my fighters were - but it's still panicky. Rather, it'd be more like "Target acquired... locked... fire". They are trained, you know.The "Oh God here they come, Fire Fire FIRE!" bit was actually what your missile crews and pilots would be saying, not the attackers. No panicking, reacting. Try reading in context next time.
EDIT: Edited slightly to sound a little less rude.
Sorry, no ranting to be found here. Go look elsewhere, or for another bitch session in this same thread.
Last edited by Sorongath on Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I fought the law, and the law won..."Why is it me who always has to tell them to stop whining like kids?
If Babs had responded then it's possible that they could have done just that. As I invoked the 24 hour rule, though, I'm at liberty (within reason) to say that the fighters did not counter attack. In fact, that's the only thing that Babs would have done that I wouldn't have done.
As the charter says:
Bombers can still fight, but AFAIK, they were loaded up with armament for ground attack.
As the charter says:
Andreas admits that he didn't order them to retaliate in the event of attack.Any unit that does not have any orders will automatically defend itself if attacked but do nothing else.
Bombers can still fight, but AFAIK, they were loaded up with armament for ground attack.
- Guido Zambelis
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