[Speech] The unameable horror
Yes, but remember. I told Monty to blow it out his [censored].
But your right, we just wait until after the war and ask to have Monty for a trial. ok?
But your right, we just wait until after the war and ask to have Monty for a trial. ok?
King Lachlan
King of Novatainia
King of Novatainia
Sorongath wrote:Uhh guys... we should probably revive Enrique.
*Begins CPR*
KingJeremy wrote:I'm only a man Andreas, even with my godly looks
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Jeremy, yes, it's not an excuse, but it can still be a reason. Monty doesn't have either.
(though to be honest even some MCS people don't know about those URL's ... the number of people who are reguarly on here who asked me for Passas' URL .... )
Your story, while somewhat humorous, is not entirely founded. My history is a little shaky post Medieval, but weren't the Americans horrified after dropping the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima? Or did they wait till after the war for that too?
And I don't recall complaints when Tomsett made a speech after his undefended city had been attacked ...
Let me tell you a story. I have a lot of recwar experience. Unfortunately, almost none of it is international - it's all in magical recwars. Now, in the world of magic recwars, there's only really two nations involved - Tokidoki and Novatainia. There's no "oh, let's bomb the nation, we won't talk to them again till the next war" - the people you're fighting are either people you'll be seeing straight after the war, or good friends. And we manage quite well - indeed, I must say any magic war I've been in so far has been far more exciting, more interesting strategy, and more "recreational" than any international war. How did we acheive this? For a start, by not attacking civilians (actually, we have a convenient illusion thing so even the soldiers don't die, but we won't go into that). When you said "let's have a recwar, nothing serious" I hoped it would, for a change, actually be recreational. So one of the points of my speech is reminding you all this. Let's stop doing atrocious things NOW, so we can all enjoy the rest of the war recreationally ... Believe me, it's quite possible to have a serious war and not go about killing civilians all the time. Capturing an undefended city and asking for surrender, sure. Razing it to the ground and killing every man, woman and child in it - not recreational.
That better?
(though to be honest even some MCS people don't know about those URL's ... the number of people who are reguarly on here who asked me for Passas' URL .... )
Your story, while somewhat humorous, is not entirely founded. My history is a little shaky post Medieval, but weren't the Americans horrified after dropping the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima? Or did they wait till after the war for that too?
And I don't recall complaints when Tomsett made a speech after his undefended city had been attacked ...
Let me tell you a story. I have a lot of recwar experience. Unfortunately, almost none of it is international - it's all in magical recwars. Now, in the world of magic recwars, there's only really two nations involved - Tokidoki and Novatainia. There's no "oh, let's bomb the nation, we won't talk to them again till the next war" - the people you're fighting are either people you'll be seeing straight after the war, or good friends. And we manage quite well - indeed, I must say any magic war I've been in so far has been far more exciting, more interesting strategy, and more "recreational" than any international war. How did we acheive this? For a start, by not attacking civilians (actually, we have a convenient illusion thing so even the soldiers don't die, but we won't go into that). When you said "let's have a recwar, nothing serious" I hoped it would, for a change, actually be recreational. So one of the points of my speech is reminding you all this. Let's stop doing atrocious things NOW, so we can all enjoy the rest of the war recreationally ... Believe me, it's quite possible to have a serious war and not go about killing civilians all the time. Capturing an undefended city and asking for surrender, sure. Razing it to the ground and killing every man, woman and child in it - not recreational.
That better?
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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On behalf of the Novatainian and Tokidokian governments I'd like to issue an official apology/clarification for the moves of Lazidawg. Talking to those involved, we have come to the conclusion that Lazidawg acted in good faith, not intending to harm civilians. However, he may have taken political people as "not civilians", because of their active involvement in the war - like saying a military quartermaster who doesn't fight isn't a civilian. This is, judging by other country's moves, standard military procedure, but unfortunately not up to the high standards of respect for life of the Novatainian and Tokidokian armed forces. As such, he will face a war tribunal internally. If NB wish to follow this further, they can via PM/Foreign Affairs offices. It will not be discussed further by us on this forum.
In the matter of clarification though, (and as NB think I controlled virtually every Toki/Nova move in the war, even while on three days LOA, they won't mind it being me making the clarification ), what Lazidawg's orders were, and what I believe he meant his post to be interpreted as, was attacking only actual military establishments, and government buildings in the sense of those assisting the war. Obviously this does not extend to schools or hospitals - that's silly. If "in character" NB has made their evacuation plans clearly available, then the logical thing is it would be assumed that "in character" the bombers knew this and were working around it, it being such an obvious thing that a Novatainian/Tokidokian force would try to avoid civilians, and that their were refugees there, that it wasn't necessary to post specifically that. Thus, it would only be actual military targets, not those converted into shelters.
Jeremy, my point on damage is this. You get to post damage to the attack. You can take into account this clarification of how the post was MEANT to be interpreted, or you can interpret it the way you originally did, which I'm sure you know is over-the-top, and post damage based on that. Though I've yet to see a side willingly take extra damage than the opponents think is necessary or realistic. Your citizens lives are, very literally, in your hand. If you choose to kill them off, that's entirely your affair. And here, of course, is where the comparison with Montague's attack completely dissapears. Montague posted the damage report for his attack, deliberately killing many people. You post the damage here. I'm suggesting you only take the damage that was expected, which would take out your ports and stuff, but kill few people.
Now, if people would actually respond to the point of the speech, which is stopping this sort of thing happening again.
In the matter of clarification though, (and as NB think I controlled virtually every Toki/Nova move in the war, even while on three days LOA, they won't mind it being me making the clarification ), what Lazidawg's orders were, and what I believe he meant his post to be interpreted as, was attacking only actual military establishments, and government buildings in the sense of those assisting the war. Obviously this does not extend to schools or hospitals - that's silly. If "in character" NB has made their evacuation plans clearly available, then the logical thing is it would be assumed that "in character" the bombers knew this and were working around it, it being such an obvious thing that a Novatainian/Tokidokian force would try to avoid civilians, and that their were refugees there, that it wasn't necessary to post specifically that. Thus, it would only be actual military targets, not those converted into shelters.
Jeremy, my point on damage is this. You get to post damage to the attack. You can take into account this clarification of how the post was MEANT to be interpreted, or you can interpret it the way you originally did, which I'm sure you know is over-the-top, and post damage based on that. Though I've yet to see a side willingly take extra damage than the opponents think is necessary or realistic. Your citizens lives are, very literally, in your hand. If you choose to kill them off, that's entirely your affair. And here, of course, is where the comparison with Montague's attack completely dissapears. Montague posted the damage report for his attack, deliberately killing many people. You post the damage here. I'm suggesting you only take the damage that was expected, which would take out your ports and stuff, but kill few people.
Now, if people would actually respond to the point of the speech, which is stopping this sort of thing happening again.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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re:
Andreas, if i were you i would watch what i say. The tides can turn very fast. You sir, be careful [/list]Is this war saying, however, that Alexandria and Stomark no longer deserve the term superpowers?
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Enrique, I would be delighted if you and Stomark were again actively participating in Micras and meritting the term "superpower".
a. It would stop arguments of this kind
b. Its good to see all that land is then not going to waste.
But for the year or so I've been here, you don't seem to have done too much here ... probably because you were too busy on GSO. And yes, all the older nations remember and respect you still, but any nations under a year old start by looking at the map and thinking "hey, they're all so much bigger than me", and later, only look at the "big" nations that are either right next to them, or who's leaders they see reguarly on MCS, and so feel they know and can negotiate with. Superpower, surely, entails far more than just military (and by military, NB beats you and Stomark) - it is political influence, economic power etc. Personally, I don't think a true superpower can rely just on older nations saying "yes, they're good." They need to be around and influencing, so to speak.
That sound better?
And Monty, are you saying the damage on Willow shouldn't be zero (which, come to think of it, it shouldn't ... ) or that the damage on Novatica and Rillanon, which I'm now, finally, understanding and disputing, shouldn't be zero - and it isn't, because I haven't posted it yet.
a. It would stop arguments of this kind
b. Its good to see all that land is then not going to waste.
But for the year or so I've been here, you don't seem to have done too much here ... probably because you were too busy on GSO. And yes, all the older nations remember and respect you still, but any nations under a year old start by looking at the map and thinking "hey, they're all so much bigger than me", and later, only look at the "big" nations that are either right next to them, or who's leaders they see reguarly on MCS, and so feel they know and can negotiate with. Superpower, surely, entails far more than just military (and by military, NB beats you and Stomark) - it is political influence, economic power etc. Personally, I don't think a true superpower can rely just on older nations saying "yes, they're good." They need to be around and influencing, so to speak.
That sound better?
And Monty, are you saying the damage on Willow shouldn't be zero (which, come to think of it, it shouldn't ... ) or that the damage on Novatica and Rillanon, which I'm now, finally, understanding and disputing, shouldn't be zero - and it isn't, because I haven't posted it yet.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander