Leng
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- Colonel Vilhelm
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Re: Leng
Ryan's administration was not agreeable. I thought it was crazy to have an unaccountable single guy in charge. Fortunately now there is a Charter and procedure built around democracy and the interests of the members of the Society. I'm not sure if anyone disagrees that it was a bit of an odd thing for the landmass to be added, arguably it should have never been, but the fact is it was added, and a while ago- this whole campaign should have been launched the moment it was done. Unfortunately for the haters, the island now has a history and happy occupants. It's more complex now. I hope the protestors will recognise this fact.Scott Alexander wrote:My real gripe here is that apparently it's okay for one person to make a mess by getting drunk one night and adding huge splotches of land to inappropriate parts of the MCS map, but to fix the mess takes a unanimous vote and a credible backstory and the power of legendary Onyx Orb which can only be found in the impenetrable lair of Hrogmorph, Slayer of Men.
Also, Erik, this is the internet. I'm surprised internet vernacular affronts you, especially since you've been surfing it for so long. Replace Q_Q with something you find more appropriate.
Colonel Vilhelm von Benkern - Preserving the Memories (Regardless of whose those may be)
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Re: Leng
I don't understand how Leng is any more geographically ridiculous than the blue blob at the bottom left corner of the map. What am I missing, they both seem like land masses near the top or bottom edge of the map. What makes one worse than the other?
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- Scott Alexander
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Re: Leng
It was launched the moment it was done, but Ryan was in total control then, and he said "Nope, I'm not removing it and you can't make me." This issue has been flaring up periodically since then, and every time it does people like you tell us why now isn't the time.this whole campaign should have been launched the moment it was done. Unfortunately for the haters, the island now has a history and happy occupants. It's more complex now. I hope the protestors will recognise this fact.
We've tried to get rid of Sypyr too, but Gralus has too much political clout. I think the last agreement we came to was that we'd start seriously pushing for its removal after Novatainia died/left the island.I don't understand how Leng is any more geographically ridiculous than the blue blob at the bottom left corner of the map. What am I missing, they both seem like land masses near the top or bottom edge of the map. What makes one worse than the other?
You people are using arguments like "You should have done this before" or "You should have done this about other islands", but the thing is we HAVE done this before and we HAVE done it about other islands, and people saying those exact sorts of things keep stopping us. Enough already.
Scott Alexander | Autokrator of Archipelago (What is Archipelago?)
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Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
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Re: Leng
Although none of those islands were ever owned by nations and definitely didn't have cities built on them, like Leng has. That's one of the main problems about "undiscovering" it...Scott Alexander wrote:Or, if you're willing to play the "Well, Leng was just discovered" card, what is discovered can be undiscovered. During the early days of polar exploration, a bunch of islands were "discovered" and duly recorded on maps but later turned out not to exist.
- Colonel Vilhelm
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Re: Leng
Really? Quelle surprise! You're telling me it's just you guys that care about this? That generations of MCS members have gone by without giving a damn? Even people who were there when it meant nothing didn't care? Golly, there is a shocker.Scott Alexander wrote:It was launched the moment it was done, but Ryan was in total control then, and he said "Nope, I'm not removing it and you can't make me." This issue has been flaring up periodically since then, and every time it does people like you tell us why now isn't the time.
Colonel Vilhelm von Benkern - Preserving the Memories (Regardless of whose those may be)
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Re: Leng
Do not put words in my mouth, Scott. While I may have run the MCS myself, I did not do so as some sort of iron dictator, so don't exaggerate the facts. I did more for this society than most, and my tenure was the longest of any of the Admin-Generals. I may not have been the best leader, but I did my best to try and keep everyone happy; and you have no right to pass judgement on me for it.Scott Alexander wrote:It was launched the moment it was done, but Ryan was in total control then, and he said "Nope, I'm not removing it and you can't make me." This issue has been flaring up periodically since then, and every time it does people like you tell us why now isn't the time.
When the islands were added, most of the map was full, and well over half the MCS' members were clamoring for me to add more land. I held out on this for a long time, until it came to the point where there was an overwhelming majority of members in favor of adding the islands. Some people wanted to add an entire new continent like Apollonia, stretching the map out to the east and west! You, Erik, and the other discontents were either not around, silent about it, or in the minority. Retaining the additions had nothing to do with my controlling the MCS. I acquiesced to the rule of majority.
You've been arguing this point since they were added. I will grant you that - because I present facts and I don't fabricate material to support my position. The simple fact of the matter is that you've been in the minority this entire time.
Re: Leng
The way the map is, people consider it to be a picture of a region, not as a world map.
But look at how the world really is:
http://bill3000.net/Maps/northpole.png
http://bill3000.net/Maps/southpole.png
I really shouldn't have to explain that it looks awful.
We should strive to make the world map better, not snivel in its crappiness. Make it look like an actual world. Other islands look horrible too, and it would be best to renovate the entire polar regions to aid in removing the distortion, but we can start by removing Leng.
Also, Ryan, you're lying; there was a ton of discontent over the map changes. Even if they wanted more land, they did not want the land you created. You refused to budge once you made the map already.
But look at how the world really is:
http://bill3000.net/Maps/northpole.png
http://bill3000.net/Maps/southpole.png
I really shouldn't have to explain that it looks awful.
We should strive to make the world map better, not snivel in its crappiness. Make it look like an actual world. Other islands look horrible too, and it would be best to renovate the entire polar regions to aid in removing the distortion, but we can start by removing Leng.
Also, Ryan, you're lying; there was a ton of discontent over the map changes. Even if they wanted more land, they did not want the land you created. You refused to budge once you made the map already.
Last edited by Bill3000 on Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Leng
No.. Ryan.. we were around and we did say something.. and got brushed aside...
Erik Metzler
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Re: Leng
I am finding myself agreeing with Scott more and more. Please, just remove it so this doesn't have to happen for much longer.
Re: Leng
All the arctic and antarctic islands look like shyte in the polar projection maps; so what's the difference with Leng? You're not going to start changing ALL the islands to be more aesthetically pleasing, so why this sudden exception?
This is how the world looks. Deal with it. The removal of Leng will not change the rest of the islands from also looking like ribbons in the polar projection.
Regardless, I do not dictate MCS rules or policy. If you want to proceed with this, that's your choice. You have heard my objection to the matter, and I remain in objection to it. If you wish to conduct a vote on it, then by all means go ahead and vote. I will not continue this pointless argument. As a member of the MCS, Universalis has a right to express its opinion and determination upon lands which it has long occupied. As a member, we object to the removal of Leng in any way shape or form. That is our official policy, and that is all we will say on this matter.
This is how the world looks. Deal with it. The removal of Leng will not change the rest of the islands from also looking like ribbons in the polar projection.
Regardless, I do not dictate MCS rules or policy. If you want to proceed with this, that's your choice. You have heard my objection to the matter, and I remain in objection to it. If you wish to conduct a vote on it, then by all means go ahead and vote. I will not continue this pointless argument. As a member of the MCS, Universalis has a right to express its opinion and determination upon lands which it has long occupied. As a member, we object to the removal of Leng in any way shape or form. That is our official policy, and that is all we will say on this matter.
Re: Leng
Actually, I am. But Leng needs to go first. One thing at a time.Ryan wrote:All the arctic and antarctic islands look like shyte in the polar projection maps; so what's the difference with Leng? You're not going to start changing ALL the islands to be more aesthetically pleasing, so why this sudden exception?