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[Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:20 pm
by Nathan
The following Opinion is proposed to the General Assembly by the Florian delegation for debate, with the exact text written by the Secretariat. MTO members are encouraged to add their own proposals to the list for future debate.
The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns the form of religious extremism or fanaticism that encourages violence or hatred against those outside of one's religion.
Delegates may suggest expanding, refining, and clarifying the text of this Opinion.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:25 pm
by Eugene Friedriechsen
The People's Republic of Graecia more than simply supports this opinion.
There are some religious sects that just do not recognize the Socialist benefits, instead preferring to leave by harassing others. Why the people must be harassed because someone believes that his "gods" will give him good omens by this?

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:36 am
by Ric
Chryse applauds this measure. It moves, however, to amend the motion to condemn all religious-fanatic violence, not only the violence directed to people outside the religion, by removing the following words: "against those outside of one's religion". As such the motion would read, if amended:

The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns the form of religious extremism or fanaticism that encourages violence or hatred.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:26 am
by Eugene Friedriechsen
The People's Republic of Graecia would endorse such an amendment.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:13 pm
by Continuator
To believe that one's religious beliefs are the manifestation of a universal truth, it is absolutely necessary to hate that which, if manifested in alternative and contradictory religious practices, would lead the faithful towards untruth instead. To accept that there may be common ground would be to be implicitly to accept the argument that there may be some areas in which the doctrine of the faith might be in error. One cannot make that concession without ceasing to be a true believer. To refrain from hatred of that which is contrary to divine writ is to cease in one's own devotions.

Yet what is it about hatred or religious extremism that concerns the state power, as the ultimate arbiter of civil society? It is that the act of expressing, or more explicitly of acting out, that righteous hatred of the unbeliever will be the occasion of a conflict that is contrary to the wishes and design of the state power and therefore unlawful, and that the conflict thus engendered, without the restraining hand of civic leadership, will grow to an extent that will endanger the unity and safety of the polity.

It is not therefore the place of this august body to condemn facets of religious belief, any more than it is the role of the state to make a window into men's souls. Rather we should condemn religiously motivated violence where it occurs without the sanction of public authority. Elwynn therefore proposes the following amendment:
The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns any form of public disorder or violence, occurring contrary to law, that is religiously motivated in its origin or conduct.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:29 pm
by Eugene Friedriechsen
The People's Republic of Graecia would like to say that we agree on some things said by the honorable Elwynnese delegation.
However, we believe that this second proposed amendment is a bit too vague.
So, if an act of religious extremism and hatred somehow finds a loophole in the laws and it's not unlawful, it should not be condemned?
And, any unbiased act of hatred that does not originate from religious extremism shall be allowed?
We tend to not endorse this new amendment, unless it is further clarified.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:01 pm
by Jack
Calbion rejects this very vaguely worded proposal. One man's bigotry is another man's freedom, the MTO is not a panel for arbitrage in matters of religion or freedom of thought.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:03 pm
by Cosmic Fury
The delegation from Ralgon supports its Adrestian people in their universal refusal to condemn religious practices. Adopting any such rules in our increasingly diverse constituent countries would accomplish little more than grossly infringing upon the religious freedoms that our subjects and allied denizens only enjoy after decades of peacefully striving to achieve them.

Religious extremism is, in and to itself, a slippery slope. One religious fundamentalist can easily call a fundamentalist from another religion an extremist and take action solely based off those grounds. No logic is involved in such moves. We, the Ralgons, and our close cousins in our Holy Empire, can all personally attest to how terrible things may become when faith is our only driving force for all relevant actions and policies. We shall not support resolutions that encourage such practices in this organization, binding or otherwise.

This being said, Ralgon and Adrestian authorities carry out punishments and inquisitions for the justification(s) for such actions against criminals based on criminal activity, or proven conspiracy to commit criminal activity. Religion carries no weight in court as an excuse, and thus will not be condoned or condemned as such. If one being hates another for whatever cause and said cause is not justified outside of subjective reasons (to include matters of faith), then punishment exacted will be imposed accordingly.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:27 pm
by Nathan
Violence and hatred motivated by religion is especially insidious. The very nature of religion lends itself to be incorporated into every facet of a person's life, their family, community, and nation. There must be a line in the sand where civilized nations say "these particular practitioners have gone too far by encouraging or participating in the murder of others."

This is not a condemnation of religion, this is not a condemnation of religiously devout people, this is not a condemnation of people who believe in eternal damnation for "sinners." I believe this is a condemnation against murdering people based purely on the fact that they believe something different in their own hearts. There will be other Opinions to debate when or if murdering people is ok for other reasons, but in this instance, each member state must decide if they support the right of its citizens to murder each other and claim religious freedom, in the same manner as claiming self-defense or other historically justifiable defenses.

Therefore, I propose another version of the Opinion, similar to Elwynn's, to be more narrow in scope and avoid a vague condemnation.
The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns the use of religion or faith as a justification for murder, torture, or assault.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:34 pm
by Eugene Friedriechsen
The people's Republic of Graecia would endorse this new version.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:12 pm
by Jack
Murder, torture, and assault are punished by all civilised nations according to their laws. Calbion will not approve of the underlying assertion that religion is somehow a catalyst for crime. The MTO must not be an organisation that promotes atheism.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:06 am
by Ric
With objections having been raised to the notion of condemnation of religious extremism, Chryse moves to "kill" the motion.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:18 pm
by Jonas Windsor
Jack wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:12 pm
Murder, torture, and assault are punished by all civilised nations according to their laws. Calbion will not approve of the underlying assertion that religion is somehow a catalyst for crime. The MTO must not be an organisation that promotes atheism.
Hear! Hear!

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:59 pm
by Nathan
A- The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns the form of religious extremism or fanaticism that encourages violence or hatred against those outside of one's religion.
B- The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns the form of religious extremism or fanaticism that encourages violence or hatred.
C- The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns any form of public disorder or violence, occurring contrary to law, that is religiously motivated in its origin or conduct.
D- The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organization condemns the use of religion or faith as a justification for murder, torture, or assault.
These are the proposed versions of the Opinion so far. I request that members indicate their preference for the final text of this Opinion. due to the liveliness of the debate we will not begin voting on Monday to give us time to select the final wording.

Regarding the motion to kill the resolution, unless perhaps the sponsoring member state wishes to withdraw it I would not suggest killing it. I won't begin the precedent of removing a resolution from debate because two members disagree and other members disagree with the wording of it. That is the nature and reason for debate in the General Assembly, to discuss and if possible reach a global consensus. It is perhaps more interesting when we do not agree, as it provides a basis of understanding to work from.

Re: [Discussion] Condemnation of Religious Extremism

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:11 pm
by Eugene Friedriechsen
The People's Republic of Graecia would endorse version C
If we are allowed to, we would like to modify this version a bit, to read as follows:
C- The General Assembly of the Micras Treaty Organisation condemns any form of disorder, violence, murder, or any other form of harassment, that is religiously motivated in it's origin or conduct.