EOA Move
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EOA Move
May I ask the Council to heed this request? I cannot vote, of course.Gustaaf Vermeylen wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:53 pmName & Title: Mahmud bin Alsalam, Emir of Arbor
E-Mail/Contact: discord
Nation: Emirate of Arbor
Request:
Notes:
The story describing Arbor's move is still in its final stages. Nevertheless, I would like to make this claim already.
- Arbor mainland moves to Apollonia;
- I want to donate the Arbor Isles, where the emirate originated, and former Valerion to the Holy Ralgon Empire;
- Only Bur Astir remains where it is;
- The new neighbours, Hurmu and future Lac Glacei, have already been informed. The northern boundary of Apollonian Arbor is aligned with the plans for Lac Glacei.
Edit: The story is written, see here.
Edit2: The Keltian map has been updated.
Arky
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Re: EOA Move
Firstly, I'll say that I do think the size of the land isn't too unreasonable for Arbor's activity, taking in The Micras Chessboard as its only recent development, and the gift to Ralgon would be perfectly sustained by its prospective new owners. However, I am somewhat unsure about such a legitimately huge undertaking as shifting the entire nation being done so quickly. I've never been against relocation on principle, but I think for a more realistic sake (realism being something we have come to worry about increasingly so in recent years), I'd prefer maybe a more step-by-step approach, or more non-literary narrative work around what's going down. Maybe that's just me though.
I will voice some other thoughts over why the relocation would put it so close to Çakaristan - obviously a fair few cultural ties, but are we to expect an annexation attempt following this? Similar things have been done before, so just an observation rather than any kind of real worry (I really don't think Arbor could ever be considered a nation founded purely to be annexed into Çakaristan ). I'm not 100% comfortable with the "Craitabad" city label, but I can't object to it through any genuine reasoning.
Ultimately, I can best sum this up in saying that I don't necessarily object to the outcome, but the process leaves a lot to be desired. Relocating isn't fundamentally a bad thing, but it is a major deal that I think we need to be pretty strict with approving more so than other expansions and modifications. My vote is provisional, as I admit I would change it with more supporting development behind the move, but it's currently a NAY...
I will voice some other thoughts over why the relocation would put it so close to Çakaristan - obviously a fair few cultural ties, but are we to expect an annexation attempt following this? Similar things have been done before, so just an observation rather than any kind of real worry (I really don't think Arbor could ever be considered a nation founded purely to be annexed into Çakaristan ). I'm not 100% comfortable with the "Craitabad" city label, but I can't object to it through any genuine reasoning.
Ultimately, I can best sum this up in saying that I don't necessarily object to the outcome, but the process leaves a lot to be desired. Relocating isn't fundamentally a bad thing, but it is a major deal that I think we need to be pretty strict with approving more so than other expansions and modifications. My vote is provisional, as I admit I would change it with more supporting development behind the move, but it's currently a NAY...
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Re: EOA Move
ON HOLD...
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Re: EOA Move
Gustaaf Vermeylen wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:42 amI would like to resubmit the claim because of the new developments:
Name & Title: Mahmud bin Alsalam, Emir of Arbor
E-Mail/Contact: discord
Nation: Emirate of Arbor
Request:
Notes:
- The story describing Arbor's move can be read here.
- The more factual description can be read here
- The first international cooperation can be read here
- I want to donate the Arbor Isles, where the emirate originated, and former Valerion to the Holy Ralgon Empire.
Arky
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Re: EOA Move
A smaller claim having agreed a different border to align with Lac Glacei's, but I do still feel the actual/factual explanation behind the relocation is short. Lines like "In a mysterious way, this transformation took place without hurting anyone or being worse." almost seem to be mocking the idea of having some legitimate, realistic way a nation can up sticks and move thousands of miles. It's a big undertaking and should be described as such for me. Until then, still NAY...
Re: EOA Move
Assuming that due to the author of the claim not voting, that I can. If not, then dismiss this as the blatherings of some rando.
I understand the points raised here by Craitman. There's been a bit of a trajectory some of Arkadius' projects - things like fitting the entire population of Francia into three small islands, pulling 300 million inhabitants out of nowhere in Cakaristan, suddenly having the entire Storish navy at their disposal in Cakaristan as well, among other things. I've come to expect outlandish and unrealistic moves by Arkadius here.
While I think it's laudable and probably something we should encourage to have people work realistically, we are also in a world where blue aliens with four hands ruled Shireroth, where there's magic and pokemon and dragons and dragon-like monsters becoming refugees in Eura. Also, I think I am the last person to be able to comment on this, as before Alexandria settled in Cibola, we jumped around from Keltia to Apollonia before we settled in Cibola, too. I know because Ric never lets me forget it!
Now, I'm not sure if this is an effort to merge both nations together or something, but I'm also concerned that Arkadius didn't notify its New Alexandrian neighbors of the move, especially since he's so keen about forcing people that have each other blocked to avoid unpleasantries to talk. Already not living up to his own standards.
If this is the final resting place for Arbor and Arkadius finds this is more conducive to his creativity and willingness to continue to be involved, then I'd be inclined to vote AYE. I see the points raised here and the Charter does indicate that we must take into account realism. But I also think we should take into account the things people do to make projects creatively sustainable. If this will help him carry on with Arbor, then I'd be inclined to vote AYE.
However, that didn't stop the Council in the past from approving claims like Hoenn, for instance. Where does the realism draw the line? Is it the content of the nation itself or the acts that it commits? This is a good place here where I think I could stand to be clarified accordingly, just to make sure I'm working from the same place as everyone else. This is a genuine effort to gain clarity and understanding here.
Until then, I'll see what the others think first and reassess, as I'd like to hear what the rest of the Council thinks.
I understand the points raised here by Craitman. There's been a bit of a trajectory some of Arkadius' projects - things like fitting the entire population of Francia into three small islands, pulling 300 million inhabitants out of nowhere in Cakaristan, suddenly having the entire Storish navy at their disposal in Cakaristan as well, among other things. I've come to expect outlandish and unrealistic moves by Arkadius here.
While I think it's laudable and probably something we should encourage to have people work realistically, we are also in a world where blue aliens with four hands ruled Shireroth, where there's magic and pokemon and dragons and dragon-like monsters becoming refugees in Eura. Also, I think I am the last person to be able to comment on this, as before Alexandria settled in Cibola, we jumped around from Keltia to Apollonia before we settled in Cibola, too. I know because Ric never lets me forget it!
Now, I'm not sure if this is an effort to merge both nations together or something, but I'm also concerned that Arkadius didn't notify its New Alexandrian neighbors of the move, especially since he's so keen about forcing people that have each other blocked to avoid unpleasantries to talk. Already not living up to his own standards.
If this is the final resting place for Arbor and Arkadius finds this is more conducive to his creativity and willingness to continue to be involved, then I'd be inclined to vote AYE. I see the points raised here and the Charter does indicate that we must take into account realism. But I also think we should take into account the things people do to make projects creatively sustainable. If this will help him carry on with Arbor, then I'd be inclined to vote AYE.
However, that didn't stop the Council in the past from approving claims like Hoenn, for instance. Where does the realism draw the line? Is it the content of the nation itself or the acts that it commits? This is a good place here where I think I could stand to be clarified accordingly, just to make sure I'm working from the same place as everyone else. This is a genuine effort to gain clarity and understanding here.
Until then, I'll see what the others think first and reassess, as I'd like to hear what the rest of the Council thinks.
EDGARD
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Re: EOA Move
I'd like to see a more realistic rationale for the move, it's just not consistent with the principle of geographic realism at the moment, so it would have to be a NAY for now.
Re: EOA Move
After seeing this stall for a while and having heard from everyone so far, I vote AYE.
EDGARD
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Re: EOA Move
Whilst I do sympathise with the desire to have a certain level of "realism" with Micras, as Edgard noted, given that we've previously had floating islands and Arbor would be far from the first nation to just up sticks and move somewhere else, I'm not too miffed by it, especially given that Arkadius has been around for a number of years; this isn't a new nation trying to claim some place new just because they've found a new friend.
I do agree that perhaps the in-sim reasoning is weak, however, Arky has put in a lot of work surrounding this and this move also opens up possibilities regarding increased intermicronational participation with Apollonian neighbours such as Cakaristan and Jingdao. Furthermore, I've also received assurances from Arky that this is not a cover for a future Arbor-Cakaristan merger.
I'm inclined to vote in support, however, it is extremely tentatively and I would implore Arky to perhaps develop the rationale behind the merger a bit better, but for me, it's just above the threshold required for this kind of move. Just.
AYE.
I do agree that perhaps the in-sim reasoning is weak, however, Arky has put in a lot of work surrounding this and this move also opens up possibilities regarding increased intermicronational participation with Apollonian neighbours such as Cakaristan and Jingdao. Furthermore, I've also received assurances from Arky that this is not a cover for a future Arbor-Cakaristan merger.
I'm inclined to vote in support, however, it is extremely tentatively and I would implore Arky to perhaps develop the rationale behind the merger a bit better, but for me, it's just above the threshold required for this kind of move. Just.
AYE.
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Re: EOA Move
+ I believe Arky will be able to provide a more 'realistic' background story if people would want that. He has done so in the past, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't now.
+ We have had nations before who moved. I understand Craitman's reasoning in the matter, but Jingdao is a good example of nation which moved around quite a bit and flourished.
+ Green must be conque... err...
+ The nation's move will make Apollonia a more interesting place to be. I like Benacia because it's filled with nation states. Apollonia has enough free space to welcome another nation into its fold.
AYE.
+ We have had nations before who moved. I understand Craitman's reasoning in the matter, but Jingdao is a good example of nation which moved around quite a bit and flourished.
+ Green must be conque... err...
+ The nation's move will make Apollonia a more interesting place to be. I like Benacia because it's filled with nation states. Apollonia has enough free space to welcome another nation into its fold.
AYE.
Honoured Servant of the Jingdaoese Heavenly Light and the Kaiseress of Shireroth
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Re: EOA Move
Honoured Servant of the Jingdaoese Heavenly Light and the Kaiseress of Shireroth