MER expansion
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Re: MER expansion
While a large expansion as it essentially doubles their mainland's size, Mercury have always generally had a cautious approach to claiming - with their other notable addition being an annexation - so my presumption is that this is likely to be a target rather than a starting point in regards to gaining land. There's been a slight upturn in activity for them leading up to this which might not be much but has been sustained somewhat. I'll admit I am a bit torn as I'd probably expect a little more to support this, but then I do also think that a lot of Mercury's development occurred during times when they didn't expand much and probably could have taken more, so it evens out. I hope that enough good things come from the new territories that mean my cautiousness is misplaced, though, so I'll lean towards an AYE...
Re: MER expansion
Whilst this is a large expansion and Mercury's overall activity for the national wiki isn't that great, which would ordinarily lead me to deny this claim, Joe has invested a lot of time into Micrasian sports, which unlike other forms of activity, doesn't lead itself to gain posts or edits for the nation that person belongs to. I've expressed personal frustration before that we don't take into account for that, and I think it really needs to be considered that the only metric we're officially supposed to use are nation-specific metrics. Considering that a lot of events, particularly the Ice Hockey & Rugby League tournaments, wouldn't happen without Joe, I don't see why we effectively punish people by not allowing national expansion for investing their time in Micras-wide projects that aren't easily document-able on their wiki/forum, compared to other forms of multilateral engagement, such as industry and diplomacy, which are sources of activity for lots of other nations. Just because sports are more centralised and usually organised on the hub, doesn't mean that involvement shouldn't be taken into account, because currently, a nation (or person) that is involved in sports is currently at a disadvantage when it comes to expanding their nation compared to nations (or people) that focus on other forms of cultural development or activity.
In addition to that, I also feel that wiki nations are often at a disadvantage when it comes to claiming, which is why I recently set up a forum for Senya. As wiki activity is less quantifiable than forum posts (regardless of content), I, and I certainly know others also feel this way, that those of us who run wiki nations are often more harshly assessed when it comes to expansion than other nations.
In light of this, and of Joe's persistent involvement in the community, I'm siding to approve this expansion. AYE.
In addition to that, I also feel that wiki nations are often at a disadvantage when it comes to claiming, which is why I recently set up a forum for Senya. As wiki activity is less quantifiable than forum posts (regardless of content), I, and I certainly know others also feel this way, that those of us who run wiki nations are often more harshly assessed when it comes to expansion than other nations.
In light of this, and of Joe's persistent involvement in the community, I'm siding to approve this expansion. AYE.
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Re: MER expansion
I don't want to derail this thread, but I always feel obligated to clear-up any times when I think there's a misunderstanding about how claiming works.
There's one reason why we judge a nation solely on that nation's activity; because it's nations which claim on the map. If it were individuals who claimed on the map - and that legend said Craitman, not Craitland - all the non-Craitish stuff I do would put me in line to personally claim the rest of Keltia in a heartbeat. Also add to that the fact individuals are more often than not involved in more than one nation, then judging a nation from a person's own activity becomes a dangerous place. I'd not expect Xang Muang to remain on the map just because I've made a few posts on the Hub lately, it needs to remain there on its own merit, hence why I've had to hurriedly edit its article before now to avoid a removal. In extreme circumstances, we could end-up with a completely dead nation permanently stuck to the map purely because its founder is involved in an unrelated organisation and puts an odd post there once a month (but does nothing with the nation itself) - it's not a fair approach.
I'd also disagree with the point that we effectively punish people who are involved in Micraswide projects because they aren't documentable on their nation's forums. I copy-paste all the FMF World Cup qualifying results onto Craitland's forum, and always have done, which goes towards our monthly counts between January and June each year. If anything, it's handy to ensure there's another back-up location of results. It's not much of a stretch to assume the same could be done for other sports in other nations such as ice hockey in Mercury - calling it a punishment is disingenuous when there actually are ways to ensure international involvement can be put toward national activity.
tl;dr L'état ce n'est pas moi
There's one reason why we judge a nation solely on that nation's activity; because it's nations which claim on the map. If it were individuals who claimed on the map - and that legend said Craitman, not Craitland - all the non-Craitish stuff I do would put me in line to personally claim the rest of Keltia in a heartbeat. Also add to that the fact individuals are more often than not involved in more than one nation, then judging a nation from a person's own activity becomes a dangerous place. I'd not expect Xang Muang to remain on the map just because I've made a few posts on the Hub lately, it needs to remain there on its own merit, hence why I've had to hurriedly edit its article before now to avoid a removal. In extreme circumstances, we could end-up with a completely dead nation permanently stuck to the map purely because its founder is involved in an unrelated organisation and puts an odd post there once a month (but does nothing with the nation itself) - it's not a fair approach.
I'd also disagree with the point that we effectively punish people who are involved in Micraswide projects because they aren't documentable on their nation's forums. I copy-paste all the FMF World Cup qualifying results onto Craitland's forum, and always have done, which goes towards our monthly counts between January and June each year. If anything, it's handy to ensure there's another back-up location of results. It's not much of a stretch to assume the same could be done for other sports in other nations such as ice hockey in Mercury - calling it a punishment is disingenuous when there actually are ways to ensure international involvement can be put toward national activity.
tl;dr L'état ce n'est pas moi
Re: MER expansion
I'm not entirely comfortable with the notion of prolonged non-claiming as credit for an expansion of this magnitude. In my opinion expansions should be tied not only to overall development level but also development rate; that is, a large amount of land claimed at once should occur with correspondingly rapid development, otherwise it should be claimed in instalments (as with Senya's creep along the River Camoleo). I also agree that we should judge the merits of the nation rather than the claimant.
In this instance, therefore, I must cast a NAY.
In this instance, therefore, I must cast a NAY.
Re: MER expansion
Although the arguments of Craitman and Barnaby would usually convince me, there is one problem I cannot unsee. After checking out the Mercurian forums, I can only reach one conclusion: there has been no significant development in the nation in the past year. The only thing that is responsible for the activity levels is sports, especially posts of football scores. Now, I love sports as much as the next guy, but for a territorial expansion, I expect activity that explains this expansion. Sports, in my opinion, do not. So, on this ground, I have to vote NAY.
Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.
Re: MER expansion
I am not sure. I find the arguments given by Jack and Kras very strong. On the other hand, Mercury has plays an important role in micronational sports and I don 't think that is meaningless either. I will have to abstain.
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Re: MER expansion
That leaves the vote as a tie, which means, while a very rare occurrence nowadays, that it doesn't pass.