[Speech] The unameable horror
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[Speech] The unameable horror
[spoken of the day on the attack at Uly point]
Novatainians, Tokidokians, allies, enemies, and all other nations of Micras. Today is a black, black day, both in the history of Novatainia, and for Micras itself. Today the New Brittanian fleet, led by the despicable Lord Montague, has annihalated an entire town, for no reason. A harmless ferry point, with a few tourist points - in fact, no military or political targets whatsoever, and he completely genocided it's 100 thousand citizens. In fact, I don't know where he got that figure from, because I serverly doubt it has even that many citizens. Some may think the word genocide harsh, but slaughter on this scale clings to no other term in the sheer injustice of it. It was meant to be a recwar. Where is the recreation in slaughtering an entire undefended town?
There has been much confusion about this war and it's purpose - perhaps it is time to set the record straight. They say this war is about superpowers. It is beyond that. Is this war saying that nations like NB are not a superpower? Not at all. Is this war saying that nations like Stomark and Alexandria are not still good nations? Not in the slightest. Is this war saying, however, that Alexandria and Stomark no longer deserve the term superpowers? Perhaps. How often have they visited MCS in the last year, apart from the occasional claim? How much to they participate and influence our micran politics? Enough to be called a superpower still? Perhaps not. That could be what the war is about. But then again, could it really be saying such, when all such "old" superpowers have had to unite together to be confident of victory. Gone clearly are the days when they fought it out amongst themselves.
And what about the MI? What, indeed, about any nation under, say, two years old? Must we forever wear the term "newb", by nations who's activity is less than ours, who's influence in MCS is less than our own, who appear to live off old acheivements and not make new ones? I am certainly not saying all the old superpowers are like this, but why must we be unnecessarily quashed, when, to measures of success, we are now more succesful as a nation? Should age be the only determining factor? That could be said to be what this war is about.
And what of NAM? NAM, it seems, has fallen. The ideals of NAM - not having to align oneself with the old superpowers, but striking out on our own, seem so wonderful, but they appear to be just ideals. NAM is fighting with the old powers. Who is there to carry on the torch of their struggle? Is that what this war is about?
But what has this war shown us, so far? From this, it seems that the old power is one of arrogance and violence. I sincerely hope it is not all like this, but is genocide what we are to expect this war? Novatainia does not call for revenge - that would sink us to their level, and an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind. Novatainia merely calls for people to think on this.
I speak now to the neutral nations, those uncompeting in the war. I urge you to reconsider your position. Is this the sort of nation you want to dominate Micras, one who kills wantonly? For any of you under two years - do you want to be forever labelled "newb". You may well say - my nation is little, what can I do alone? But I say - every little bit counts. Together, we can show them that Micras is not so morally degraded as to allow this slaughter - that we will stand up against the old powers and win!
And finally I speak to the particpants. To the old powers, Stomark and Alexandria - is this what you stand for? Is this how you want to be remembered? Even if you continue fighting with NB, I urge you to, in all your moves, work against such slaughter. Keep this war recreational, do not kill citizens like this! And to the other nations, Natopia, Riponia, Durntkinstan - is this the old power you wished to support? It is not yet too late to change sides, and fight against this threat.
But whether you are old are new, powerful or weak, big or small, I ask you all to consider - is this what we want happening on Micras?
Novatainians, Tokidokians, allies, enemies, and all other nations of Micras. Today is a black, black day, both in the history of Novatainia, and for Micras itself. Today the New Brittanian fleet, led by the despicable Lord Montague, has annihalated an entire town, for no reason. A harmless ferry point, with a few tourist points - in fact, no military or political targets whatsoever, and he completely genocided it's 100 thousand citizens. In fact, I don't know where he got that figure from, because I serverly doubt it has even that many citizens. Some may think the word genocide harsh, but slaughter on this scale clings to no other term in the sheer injustice of it. It was meant to be a recwar. Where is the recreation in slaughtering an entire undefended town?
There has been much confusion about this war and it's purpose - perhaps it is time to set the record straight. They say this war is about superpowers. It is beyond that. Is this war saying that nations like NB are not a superpower? Not at all. Is this war saying that nations like Stomark and Alexandria are not still good nations? Not in the slightest. Is this war saying, however, that Alexandria and Stomark no longer deserve the term superpowers? Perhaps. How often have they visited MCS in the last year, apart from the occasional claim? How much to they participate and influence our micran politics? Enough to be called a superpower still? Perhaps not. That could be what the war is about. But then again, could it really be saying such, when all such "old" superpowers have had to unite together to be confident of victory. Gone clearly are the days when they fought it out amongst themselves.
And what about the MI? What, indeed, about any nation under, say, two years old? Must we forever wear the term "newb", by nations who's activity is less than ours, who's influence in MCS is less than our own, who appear to live off old acheivements and not make new ones? I am certainly not saying all the old superpowers are like this, but why must we be unnecessarily quashed, when, to measures of success, we are now more succesful as a nation? Should age be the only determining factor? That could be said to be what this war is about.
And what of NAM? NAM, it seems, has fallen. The ideals of NAM - not having to align oneself with the old superpowers, but striking out on our own, seem so wonderful, but they appear to be just ideals. NAM is fighting with the old powers. Who is there to carry on the torch of their struggle? Is that what this war is about?
But what has this war shown us, so far? From this, it seems that the old power is one of arrogance and violence. I sincerely hope it is not all like this, but is genocide what we are to expect this war? Novatainia does not call for revenge - that would sink us to their level, and an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind. Novatainia merely calls for people to think on this.
I speak now to the neutral nations, those uncompeting in the war. I urge you to reconsider your position. Is this the sort of nation you want to dominate Micras, one who kills wantonly? For any of you under two years - do you want to be forever labelled "newb". You may well say - my nation is little, what can I do alone? But I say - every little bit counts. Together, we can show them that Micras is not so morally degraded as to allow this slaughter - that we will stand up against the old powers and win!
And finally I speak to the particpants. To the old powers, Stomark and Alexandria - is this what you stand for? Is this how you want to be remembered? Even if you continue fighting with NB, I urge you to, in all your moves, work against such slaughter. Keep this war recreational, do not kill citizens like this! And to the other nations, Natopia, Riponia, Durntkinstan - is this the old power you wished to support? It is not yet too late to change sides, and fight against this threat.
But whether you are old are new, powerful or weak, big or small, I ask you all to consider - is this what we want happening on Micras?
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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This would be an ideal oppertunity to make a vengeful sarcastic comment, however due to the presence of decency i won't bother. But i would like to point out that basing your entire view on a nation, in this case New Brittania, on the actions of a minority is what is called racism. A Jordanian drives a poorly constructed car-bomb into Glasgow airport, does this mean we should hate all Jordanians? No, because luckily for the world we don't all make sweeping generalisations. Any civilian casualties are down as much to mis-information as malice in the haze of battle.
And, if Novatainia is infact Mother Teresa in Micronational form as you say, why did Novatainia try to bomb the most heavily populated area in our country yesterday? Would it not be more humane to bomb the military installations inside the areas which were evacuated of civilians? The answer is yes. As much as you might like to pretend you didn't, Novatainia tried to bomb a city full of millions of refugees yesterday out of nothing but malice because your commander even said in the post that Novatainia thought it to be empty of military units.
However luckily for mankind not everyone is stupid enough to believe someone who pretends to be godly and yet has commited all the crimes he lists.
And, if Novatainia is infact Mother Teresa in Micronational form as you say, why did Novatainia try to bomb the most heavily populated area in our country yesterday? Would it not be more humane to bomb the military installations inside the areas which were evacuated of civilians? The answer is yes. As much as you might like to pretend you didn't, Novatainia tried to bomb a city full of millions of refugees yesterday out of nothing but malice because your commander even said in the post that Novatainia thought it to be empty of military units.
However luckily for mankind not everyone is stupid enough to believe someone who pretends to be godly and yet has commited all the crimes he lists.
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Jeremy, you misread my speech, or perhaps I didn't express it right. The speech was meant to ... shock ... can't find the right word ... you all into NOT repeating this. I know NB shouldn't be like this, so why are you, as Earl, letting this happen?
And what most heavily populated area? I'm sorry, I haven't followed all the posts (I'm not perfect you know), but I assure you, ever Novatainian (and indeed, Tokidokian I can find) I have talked to has been told time and again not to attack civilian. In both war posts and outside. But I can't be held personally responsible if not everybody reads things ... Point me to the post then ... it might have been worded vaugely in which case you would assume it on military establishments, not civilians. If it is as you say, I can assure you I'll be having words with them.
The difference is, of course, if one person ignored things and an attack slipped through, the rest of our force are trying exactly the opposite. Your force has (to my memory) not said anything about trying to avoid civilians, certainly not in every second post, and you didn't immediately condemn Montague's actions as I would have done were it one of my commanders. Though you have made a speech labelling us childlike barbarians, and if that's not racist and making sweeping generalisations, what is?
And what most heavily populated area? I'm sorry, I haven't followed all the posts (I'm not perfect you know), but I assure you, ever Novatainian (and indeed, Tokidokian I can find) I have talked to has been told time and again not to attack civilian. In both war posts and outside. But I can't be held personally responsible if not everybody reads things ... Point me to the post then ... it might have been worded vaugely in which case you would assume it on military establishments, not civilians. If it is as you say, I can assure you I'll be having words with them.
The difference is, of course, if one person ignored things and an attack slipped through, the rest of our force are trying exactly the opposite. Your force has (to my memory) not said anything about trying to avoid civilians, certainly not in every second post, and you didn't immediately condemn Montague's actions as I would have done were it one of my commanders. Though you have made a speech labelling us childlike barbarians, and if that's not racist and making sweeping generalisations, what is?
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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X
It might be prudent to remember that this is just a game and no one has actually died.
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I know, but it would be nice if we didn't kill civilians in the first place ...
EDIT: It's the principal of the thing. They didn't sign up to risk death.
EDIT: It's the principal of the thing. They didn't sign up to risk death.
Last edited by Andreas the Wise on Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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As the post clearly says your military thought there was no military presence in the city, however we very publically announced that thousands if not millions of refugees were in the city after the evacuation of the mainland territories. That places around 5 million civilians, mostly women and children, inside the city. Bombing isn't a precise art, so while you were bombing what you assumed to be empty military buildings (although they could well have been converted to refugee centres) you could of easily slaughtered thousands or even millions if a firestorm had taken hold.Lazidawg29 wrote:Summary: 1 Eurofighter in front cheching for AA, followed by 14 Eurofighter and 35 B-1 Lancers armed with Joint Direct Attack Munition aimed at all Government building and all military buildings*Eurofighter Typhoon sores high at 55,000ft over the sea.
"Why am I seperated again?" asked the pilot
"Because" radioed Lazidawg, "your our best dodger and its your job to make sure operation F.Y.A.Y.C. is a go. We need to know if Willow is bombable."
"Of course it is!!! There weren't any orbats posted in it!!!"
"I know, but I'v here reports from the war. It's seems they arm their commonday citizens with guns, anti-missiles defences and who knows what else"
"So , I'm checking for AA?" the pilot sounded somber.
"Don't worry-little chance; It'd be total BS if commoners worked with AA in thier free time."
"Meh, I'd rather still be stationed in Angel, but you had to fly to pawelabrams' Aircraft carrier, have us refuel, and now I'm in front of 14 Eurofighter and the Big Bang to Willow."
"Hit every government building-every one! Including the offical housing. Aslo hit barracks, ports and runways. Take out AA defences if and with your Joint Staff Weapons. They already leveled one of our cities, but we won't stoop to thier level. They call us barbarian.
And to top it all you were to bomb all government buildings. The government offices are swimming with civilian workers, and if that we're enough the schools and hospitals are government buildings! So while you preach to us about being humane you're trying to kill women at work and children while they're at school? Their little virtual faces turned to horror as your military vapourises them. How do you sleep at night?
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Ahh, I see ... the thing is, it was publicly announced on YOUR forums ... that particular commander, we were lucky to get in the war at all ...
However, you're destroying your own argument by aiming all this at me. I'm quite sure I told that guy to not attack civilians, and it's not my fault if he ignored that. You're making the generalisation that every Novatainian or Tokidokian post is directly planned by me - I just tell them rough things. Though I must say, you're "assuming" that we couldn't tell the difference between military establishments and refugee camps, not giving us the credit that the commanders "in character" didn't target those things. That, and notice the last line - "They already leveled one of our cities, but we won't stoop to their level. They call us barbarian."
That suggests to me that he was certainly NOT trying to take out many of your civilians, even if he did go a little overboard in his revenge, which he shouldn't have. In effect, he's only doing what your commanders have done already - what could be called "standard military stuff" in bombing the government also, and not holding quite the high ideals I should like. Other people have "taken out all military and political targets". That doesn't make it anywhere near the level of Montague's thing.
EDIT: Sorry, just add "but I will be taking this up with him anyway."
SECOND EDIT: Oh, and did you take damage from that attack anyway? I thought you were disputing/stopped it ...
However, you're destroying your own argument by aiming all this at me. I'm quite sure I told that guy to not attack civilians, and it's not my fault if he ignored that. You're making the generalisation that every Novatainian or Tokidokian post is directly planned by me - I just tell them rough things. Though I must say, you're "assuming" that we couldn't tell the difference between military establishments and refugee camps, not giving us the credit that the commanders "in character" didn't target those things. That, and notice the last line - "They already leveled one of our cities, but we won't stoop to their level. They call us barbarian."
That suggests to me that he was certainly NOT trying to take out many of your civilians, even if he did go a little overboard in his revenge, which he shouldn't have. In effect, he's only doing what your commanders have done already - what could be called "standard military stuff" in bombing the government also, and not holding quite the high ideals I should like. Other people have "taken out all military and political targets". That doesn't make it anywhere near the level of Montague's thing.
EDIT: Sorry, just add "but I will be taking this up with him anyway."
SECOND EDIT: Oh, and did you take damage from that attack anyway? I thought you were disputing/stopped it ...
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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The time for sob-stories and war crimes trials is when the war is over, and it isn't over yet. We're not likely to apologise to our enemy (even if they do have x-ray eyes to see through a roof from 15,000 feet so as to identify and civilians inside) when they're at that time attacking us. And as not every Novatainian post is made by you (just the vast majority of them) the New Brittanian government doesn't censor posts, nor have we high-fived montague yet. He acted entirely alone and the time for looking into the rights and wrongs of the matter is when the conflict is over.
And when mentioning my speech, notice i didn't actually mention any nations by name.
And when mentioning my speech, notice i didn't actually mention any nations by name.
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I meant Aradashir's speech, actually ...
Wait to the end though? And let more crimes be commited and then wash your hands of them? Well, I think our armies will still be stopping them now and preferably before they happen. Better the murder you didn't commit than the accident you don't hold responsibility for.
Wait to the end though? And let more crimes be commited and then wash your hands of them? Well, I think our armies will still be stopping them now and preferably before they happen. Better the murder you didn't commit than the accident you don't hold responsibility for.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Yes, waiting until the end is the common practice. For the purpose of humour, which you're so fond of, i shall draw comparison with what you're suggesting we do.
Now andreas, can you see why that might be a bit unrealistic?As the last flames of Dresden died down the survivers emerged, the next wave of allied bombers could be seen overhead already and it seemed the doom was to be repeated. However as the bomb-doors opened once more a shout went up, "Wait! Look at little Timmy!" a German woman cried in horror as she pointed to the bloody corpse of Timmy and his little charred crutch.
The allied bombers were horrified and returned home, all around the world fighting stopped and the masses of the Earth were united for Little Timmy's funeral. As the tiny coffin was lowered into the cold ground, Churchill and Hitler hugged in a flood of tears, "I'm sorry, dude" Winston wept. "No, no, it's my fault. I started it" Hitler managed to stutter between weeps and so the service went on.
At the wake President Roosevelt sat in his chair at the top table inbetween Rommel and Montgomery and watched the BEF veterans play cards with the SS, all of a sudden he stood up. Everyone present gasped at the miracle that had taken place before their eyes (as we all know the power of idealistic wishy-washy theories can do wonders.) Roosevelt spoke, "Ok guys, war starts again in 20 minutes: now don't do it again!" He spoke the last words as he turned to bomber Harris and slapped him on the wrist.
As the clock chimed midnight the last stragglers rushed from the "Flying Cutless" in Berlin ready to ressume the conflict. As he ran Stallin lost one of his glass slippers on the steps, Hitler rushed out after him to say goodbye but the Russian dictator was gone into the night and all Adolf had to remember him but was the high heeled shoe which he held somberely.
When the twelth chime struck hundreds of lancasters poured into the air once more (aiming only for nearly impossible to hit targets only of course) and they lived happily ever after.
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I'd just like to say that I told Lazidawg to attack military and governmental targets only, which he did say. This was part of a plan devised before anyone was evacuated from any cities.
Also, let's note that this is Lazidawg's FIRST MICRONATIONAL RECWAR! Pardon him if he's not up on everything one is supposed to do during special occasions.
Plus, he's only been in Tokidoki for a little less than a month. He wasn't even sure there was an entire micronational world at all until about two weeks ago. So how the hell was he supposed to know to check YOUR nation to find out about civilian refugees in your city?
EDIT: I'd just like to say that not everyone knows every URL for every micronation in the world of Micras. I barely know 4 (Nova, Toki, our combined Gralus, and Passass). I don't know yours, Stormark's, Alexandria's, or whatever. I wa sunder the impression that I didn't have to, and that all things pertaining to the war would be posted where the war was being held. And wouldn't you say that millions of evacuees in a city would've been something noteworthy for everyone to know?
Also, let's note that this is Lazidawg's FIRST MICRONATIONAL RECWAR! Pardon him if he's not up on everything one is supposed to do during special occasions.
Plus, he's only been in Tokidoki for a little less than a month. He wasn't even sure there was an entire micronational world at all until about two weeks ago. So how the hell was he supposed to know to check YOUR nation to find out about civilian refugees in your city?
EDIT: I'd just like to say that not everyone knows every URL for every micronation in the world of Micras. I barely know 4 (Nova, Toki, our combined Gralus, and Passass). I don't know yours, Stormark's, Alexandria's, or whatever. I wa sunder the impression that I didn't have to, and that all things pertaining to the war would be posted where the war was being held. And wouldn't you say that millions of evacuees in a city would've been something noteworthy for everyone to know?
Prodigy Almighty, Executor of Chelkran Kesh
Baron of Absentia, Count of Western Absentia
"Denken ist schwer, darum urteilen die Meisten." - Carl Jung
Baron of Absentia, Count of Western Absentia
"Denken ist schwer, darum urteilen die Meisten." - Carl Jung
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Some of our commanders don't even know what a micronation is but we don't use that as an excuse. If you supervise your commanders through a proper chain of commander you can prevent them trying to commit atrocities with relative ease. It's all in the organisation you see.
Edit: every forum URL on micras is availible from the MCS website, and as the King of Novatainia was a citizen at the time of the evacuation i assumed he might of pointed it out to his allied commanders. It need not be posted in the war thread because its a domestic issue.
Edit: every forum URL on micras is availible from the MCS website, and as the King of Novatainia was a citizen at the time of the evacuation i assumed he might of pointed it out to his allied commanders. It need not be posted in the war thread because its a domestic issue.