Toki "secret attack" on Shilton
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Well then, pete would have Pmed me back if the troops had encountered land mines or ambushes on the way, now wouldn't he?
and you never said anything about patrols 175 miles outside of the city. even if there are, the territory that is is HUGE, you would need thousands of troops to be able to do a semi-competent job (which you dont have, because according to you they are all in Shilton) And if you do have that many spare troops, your offensive power is about the size of a half dead rat. and if my guys were noticed by these "patrols"
A) Pete would have pmed me about it.
B) the patrols would be killed to a man, unless each patrol is over 1000 units big.
oh fyi- i CAN have launched the attack and DID.
it also doesnt help that you have 0 men with goggles to help with night vision or anything like that. i attacked at dawn (included in the origonal pm which can be revealed when you reveal that all this supposed troop placement.)
and you never said anything about patrols 175 miles outside of the city. even if there are, the territory that is is HUGE, you would need thousands of troops to be able to do a semi-competent job (which you dont have, because according to you they are all in Shilton) And if you do have that many spare troops, your offensive power is about the size of a half dead rat. and if my guys were noticed by these "patrols"
A) Pete would have pmed me about it.
B) the patrols would be killed to a man, unless each patrol is over 1000 units big.
oh fyi- i CAN have launched the attack and DID.
it also doesnt help that you have 0 men with goggles to help with night vision or anything like that. i attacked at dawn (included in the origonal pm which can be revealed when you reveal that all this supposed troop placement.)
Christ almighty. Perhaps I'm just overestimating your mental capacity, but how many times do I need to say it?
The rest of this argument is therefore moot. The attack didn't happen. I'll continue anyway though... Pete wouldn't necessarily have told you. Read what I said before, I'm not going to repeat that as well, least not for your benefit. I'd forgotten, but the area's also been constantly patrolled by air (cf. Smedleyhead, 2 days ago), and, i shouldn't need say it, but I shall, is in itself a heavily populated area (well, the whole county is a heavily populated) that you propose to be able to walz right through, armed to the teeth.
Now, if you would possibly give me the good grace of reading what I actually said, which you evidently don't, you'll see the following:
Luckily for you, you never got closer to Shilton than about 300 miles, though.
Your attack can not, therefore, have taken place. It simply didn't. You cannot argue the fact, because it just didn't. If you hadn't posted such ridiculously low damages to our first assault on Hamuji, then you'd have been able to make this move at some point. Whilst those attacks are being judged, however, your troops cannot go anywhere, because they might be dead.You moved your entire unit to Hamuji 3 days ago, including these supposed attackers. You may make one move per day in order that the enemy (us) has a chance to respond (hence the 24 hour rule). We did exactly that, and responded. Your men have not moved out by this time. We bombed you, you posted ridiculously low damages. This and its subsequent move are the ones under review. Therefore, you can't move your troops because it's undecided whether they're alive or dead.
The rest of this argument is therefore moot. The attack didn't happen. I'll continue anyway though... Pete wouldn't necessarily have told you. Read what I said before, I'm not going to repeat that as well, least not for your benefit. I'd forgotten, but the area's also been constantly patrolled by air (cf. Smedleyhead, 2 days ago), and, i shouldn't need say it, but I shall, is in itself a heavily populated area (well, the whole county is a heavily populated) that you propose to be able to walz right through, armed to the teeth.
Now, if you would possibly give me the good grace of reading what I actually said, which you evidently don't, you'll see the following:
So, I accept (even though it's rubbish in itself) that you could cross to Shilton. You'd be b*ggered once you got within, though.There is a legitimate (albeit shaky in itself) reason that you may have been able to cross the 175 miles of heavily patrolled (and other things which you don't know about Wink) territory. There is also a legitimate reason that you would not have known about the 1st AC based in Shilton (you have no aerial recon, or of any other sort). Therefore, even had you been able to make the attack, you would have got into the city and found yourself confronted with thousands of armed and dangerous troops who have seen off a lot more than your piddly little unit.
Luckily for you, you never got closer to Shilton than about 300 miles, though.
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A) He did say this attack was 4 note FOUR F-O-U-R days ago, which was before the Hamuji farce (I use the term farce loosely). They weren't WITH his troops when they were bombed in Hamuji; they were already gone. Noted that they might not have an army to come back to, but...
B) I'm a little confused. Who are these mystery veteran troops suddenly in Shilton? Are they from someone's OrBat? If so, I'll leave that one alone, but I don't care if you don't want "prying eyes" to see your precious "secrets", this is a case of balls-out dispute, and you might have to reveal a hint or two to close it.
C) These are stealth mission troops. They know how to avoid detection through any means necessary. Who's to say a sniper didn't shoot a plane's pilot out of his cockpit? (This is a hypothetical of course; it could happen, not saying it did.) They do anything to get the job done, even if it involves sneaking past a few hundred miles of "heavily patrolled" area.
EDIT: This war is making Longbow go frigging nuts. I fear the anxiety alone might make his lung collapse again.
B) I'm a little confused. Who are these mystery veteran troops suddenly in Shilton? Are they from someone's OrBat? If so, I'll leave that one alone, but I don't care if you don't want "prying eyes" to see your precious "secrets", this is a case of balls-out dispute, and you might have to reveal a hint or two to close it.
C) These are stealth mission troops. They know how to avoid detection through any means necessary. Who's to say a sniper didn't shoot a plane's pilot out of his cockpit? (This is a hypothetical of course; it could happen, not saying it did.) They do anything to get the job done, even if it involves sneaking past a few hundred miles of "heavily patrolled" area.
EDIT: This war is making Longbow go frigging nuts. I fear the anxiety alone might make his lung collapse again.
Prodigy Almighty, Executor of Chelkran Kesh
Baron of Absentia, Count of Western Absentia
"Denken ist schwer, darum urteilen die Meisten." - Carl Jung
Baron of Absentia, Count of Western Absentia
"Denken ist schwer, darum urteilen die Meisten." - Carl Jung
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They were, it can't have happened four days ago because three days ago he specifically moved his entire unit to Hamuji, plus I think he's already said that it _wasn't_ four days ago.Prodigy Almighty, Toketi wrote:A) He did say this attack was 4 note FOUR F-O-U-R days ago, which was before the Hamuji farce (I use the term farce loosely). They weren't WITH his troops when they were bombed in Hamuji; they were already gone. Noted that they might not have an army to come back to, but...
Yes they are in somebody's Orbat. I don't need to reveal anything just yet, because the attack can't have happened *see above*...B) I'm a little confused. Who are these mystery veteran troops suddenly in Shilton? Are they from someone's OrBat? If so, I'll leave that one alone, but I don't care if you don't want "prying eyes" to see your precious "secrets", this is a case of balls-out dispute, and you might have to reveal a hint or two to close it.
I'm pretty sure a UAV in reconnaisance mode can operate high enough to a) not be noticed and b) not be shot down. The fighters would also have been too high.C) These are stealth mission troops. They know how to avoid detection through any means necessary. Who's to say a sniper didn't shoot a plane's pilot out of his cockpit? (This is a hypothetical of course; it could happen, not saying it did.) They do anything to get the job done, even if it involves sneaking past a few hundred miles of "heavily patrolled" area.
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Now, the most important part of that sentence is prior to the attack, which means the second the attack starts the people you are attacking know they are being attacked, so can respond, therefore you cannot post damages.Iehova wrote: Also, a 'sneak attack' does not mean you get to dictate damages, it just means you aren't detected prior to the attack
Suck up a few casualties and move on? That's not hypocritical at all. If you call the damages you posted a few casualties, then what were the simply ridiculous damages you posted in response to my legitimate attack?Longbow wrote:you said it yourself. i didn't have to tell you there were troops moving. just suck up a few casualties and move on.
I have some advice for you lot:
1. Read the rules for this war.
2. Admit your mistakes
3. Start fighting fair.
- Guido Zambelis
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the problem is that 4 (as of Sunday the 31st) days ago, I posted my orbat, and posted that my troops left Hamuji to take up a border around it, on full alert for any possible attack. A troops of soldiers, specially trained in all stealth combat situations, was also sent out to destroy Shilton at the same time. I was unaware that before my orbat had been posted, somebody had bombed the city itself, thereby endangering the lives of the troops that had not yet deployed there (?). very soon after, a high-altitude bombing raid was made on the troops, which after some debate concluded that the planes were too high up for the anti-air missiles to reach, but low enough for the planes to actually fly. The anti-missile platforms that i then used against the bombs were disputed, saying that they are only available on ships, but a defensive argument was placed saying that they were placed on trucks and modified. this is still under debate. casualties were posted for this attack, but they were too low, as the planes could actually fly at the posted hight (also after some discussion), and are currently under modification. While these various debates were happening, another attack was launched on my troops, but was not obvious within the post itself, and went unnoticed. Then the 24 hour rule was declared on said attack saying that all of my troops had been destroyed. this is under debate/ questioning/ etc.
But this is about the sneak attack. Since I had received no reply from Pete about anything happing to the troops, i assumed that they had reached Shilton, where no military (as in infantry and defenses) presence had been posted. But considering how the planes that had bombed Crydee had come from Shilton (Amos said so himself), i attacked. My troops planted C4 and other high explosives in the city, pressing the big red button some time later.
Since the issue in Paragraph 1 is still under debate, this attack has been considered null and void until P1 attack gets resolved, and the question of whether the stealth troops are alive or not is answered.
also under debate is the defenses of Shilton. No defenses or patrols had been posted in the war forum or the MI enemy OrBat forum, and as these things might be hard to keep secret, they were assumed to not exist.
anything that i did not cover i will be happy to say (personal information excluded, all i will say is that i own 1 dog, and am fish-sitting 1 fish.)
But this is about the sneak attack. Since I had received no reply from Pete about anything happing to the troops, i assumed that they had reached Shilton, where no military (as in infantry and defenses) presence had been posted. But considering how the planes that had bombed Crydee had come from Shilton (Amos said so himself), i attacked. My troops planted C4 and other high explosives in the city, pressing the big red button some time later.
Since the issue in Paragraph 1 is still under debate, this attack has been considered null and void until P1 attack gets resolved, and the question of whether the stealth troops are alive or not is answered.
also under debate is the defenses of Shilton. No defenses or patrols had been posted in the war forum or the MI enemy OrBat forum, and as these things might be hard to keep secret, they were assumed to not exist.
anything that i did not cover i will be happy to say (personal information excluded, all i will say is that i own 1 dog, and am fish-sitting 1 fish.)
- Guido Zambelis
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if they bombed it before your orbat and location were first posted, then your troops were not hit.the problem is that 4 (as of Sunday the 31st) days ago, I posted my orbat, and posted that my troops left Hamuji to take up a border around it, on full alert for any possible attack. A troops of soldiers, specially trained in all stealth combat situations, was also sent out to destroy Shilton at the same time. I was unaware that before my orbat had been posted, somebody had bombed the city itself, thereby endangering the lives of the troops that had not yet deployed there (?).
that issue is now resolved ^.very soon after, a high-altitude bombing raid was made on the troops, which after some debate concluded that the planes were too high up for the anti-air missiles to reach, but low enough for the planes to actually fly. The anti-missile platforms that i then used against the bombs were disputed, saying that they are only available on ships, but a defensive argument was placed saying that they were placed on trucks and modified. this is still under debate. casualties were posted for this attack, but they were too low, as the planes could actually fly at the posted hight (also after some discussion), and are currently under modification. While these various debates were happening, another attack was launched on my troops, but was not obvious within the post itself, and went unnoticed. Then the 24 hour rule was declared on said attack saying that all of my troops had been destroyed. this is under debate/ questioning/ etc.
But this is about the sneak attack. Since I had received no reply from Pete about anything happing to the troops, i assumed that they had reached Shilton, where no military (as in infantry and defenses) presence had been posted. But considering how the planes that had bombed Crydee had come from Shilton (Amos said so himself), i attacked. My troops planted C4 and other high explosives in the city, pressing the big red button some time later.
Since the issue in Paragraph 1 is still under debate, this attack has been considered null and void until P1 attack gets resolved, and the question of whether the stealth troops are alive or not is answered.
defences have to be actively written in, not assumed. (saying your troops start at a place is acceptable)also under debate is the defenses of Shilton. No defenses or patrols had been posted in the war forum or the MI enemy OrBat forum, and as these things might be hard to keep secret, they were assumed to not exist.
anything that i did not cover i will be happy to say (personal information excluded, all i will say is that i own 1 dog, and am fish-sitting 1 fish.)
If Riponia have any major objections, they may now raise them.
The first attack was on the city itself, not longbow's previously non-existent troops.
On the 27th (IIRC) Longbow posted that his entire unit took up positions outside hamuji. That was his move for the day (in that the enemy have a day to respond yadda yadda, it's all in the charter as you well know).
We launched an attack on this massed unit well before that day's "reserve" was up, so Longbow's special forces couldn't have moved out before this point. The damages to that attack and the subsequent one are the ones under dispute. Obviously, until they are resolved (as they soon will be, i'm getting to that right after this), Longbow's troops can't go anywhere because they may not be _alive_ to go anywhere.
There was then a third attack, the result of which is dependent upon the results of the first two attacks.
This is where we are now...
Once we get the damages for these attacks sorted out, then, then Longbow can go and do whatever secret shenanigans he feels like doing.
We're not assuming defences (although this is all pretty much a moot point because as we've already all agreed, it seems, Longbow's attack can only go ahead once we sort out how many of his men are dead.), we have them all written down, and have had them all like that since before the war (as with Alex, New Britannia), and likewise we have the manpower for it, we just haven't posted it here. I can show the judges evidence if required, although it might be just as well now to put some of it in the open...
EDIT: Oh, and a sort of minor thing, but it's common courtesy I guess, when you make a secret move, can you post that you're making a secret move, like everyone else does? It also helps with situations like this where timings are important.
Thanks,
On the 27th (IIRC) Longbow posted that his entire unit took up positions outside hamuji. That was his move for the day (in that the enemy have a day to respond yadda yadda, it's all in the charter as you well know).
We launched an attack on this massed unit well before that day's "reserve" was up, so Longbow's special forces couldn't have moved out before this point. The damages to that attack and the subsequent one are the ones under dispute. Obviously, until they are resolved (as they soon will be, i'm getting to that right after this), Longbow's troops can't go anywhere because they may not be _alive_ to go anywhere.
There was then a third attack, the result of which is dependent upon the results of the first two attacks.
This is where we are now...
Once we get the damages for these attacks sorted out, then, then Longbow can go and do whatever secret shenanigans he feels like doing.
We're not assuming defences (although this is all pretty much a moot point because as we've already all agreed, it seems, Longbow's attack can only go ahead once we sort out how many of his men are dead.), we have them all written down, and have had them all like that since before the war (as with Alex, New Britannia), and likewise we have the manpower for it, we just haven't posted it here. I can show the judges evidence if required, although it might be just as well now to put some of it in the open...
EDIT: Oh, and a sort of minor thing, but it's common courtesy I guess, when you make a secret move, can you post that you're making a secret move, like everyone else does? It also helps with situations like this where timings are important.
Thanks,
- Guido Zambelis
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The attack that went before Longbow moved to Hamuji? That was never disputed, the city's radar capability was knocked out (not that it would have done much good), as well as government buildings and a couple of other things. There was nothing to kill, except civilians which we obviously avoided doing.
EDIT: So, yeah, we didn't kill anything...
EDIT: So, yeah, we didn't kill anything...
- Guido Zambelis
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