New Participants
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New Participants
While it won't affect the current war, it's probably a fair point that new participants should post and 24 hours pass until they can take actions. I'd also change "capital occupied" to "military units/fighting in the capital." They need to start somewhere where there aren't currently military units, yes. The idea of the 24 hours would be that they can't be attacked during those 24 hours (nor attack), but it gives the enemy time to allow them into their calculations.
In the current situation, for example, Din could start in an un-attacked town like Hamuji. While Extreme couldn't attack Hamuji, he could move forces near if he choose. Similarly, Din couldn't immediately intercept Extreme's current attack on cities.
I have no problem with the principle of more units emerging - they're already there, they're just legally orbatting up.
EDIT: Scott raised a question so maybe I should explain this further. I'd also like to add his suggestion that, where appropriate, units don't start in "the capital" but rather in "their region", if the commander has a region. The capital was originally put in the charter to have an arbitrary point (so they couldn't all start from their nearest point to the war on some tiny military base), but as an arbitary point, "your region" is just as valid and more sensible. This is for nations like Shireroth, Novatainia, Toketi which have strong individual attachment to certain areas.
Scott's question was on how fair it was for new Tokians to appear in the homeland to stop Extreme. The answer to this that'll hopefully be understandable to most of you (because if you understood Toketi already you wouldn't need to ask the question) is to liken Toketi to Shireroth (or perhaps Babkha). Both have a vast population in various degrees of active-ness. Both enjoy the odd recwar, but are generally hard to coordinate to get more than a couple fighting in any given war that doesn't concern the homeland. As far as the Tokians are concerned, what was sent to Jasonia was like an advance force - maybe a quarter of the force they could potentially muster. Though it took delays to muster a home guard when needed (displaying the lack of easy coordination), it can and did happen. That's where these new three are from. In a war that was meant to be focussed in a particular location far away from NE Apollonia, homeland defence didn't seem too important - especially with the knowledge more commanders could be brought up if needed. That's just what's happening now.
Some nations (Alexandria comes to mind) are organised enough to post an entire national orbat at the start of the war. A quarter of those commanders never register on the forum, and another quarter never do anything in the war unless the particular spot they're stationed gets attacked and one of the active war participants orders them to come on. Personally, I found it most annoying to even begin to keep track of inactive commanders, and just paid attention to active ones. What Toketi has done (and what Shireroth would likely have done had anyone attacked them) is basically the same, but it saves you keeping track of inactive people - because when they do come, they post it so you know they're there. If this is still of concern to some people, a potential addition to the charter could be that, when a nation first enters, they should post a list of all potential commanders. Many may not ever enter the war, but such a list would at least make enemies aware of potential retribution - and nobody not on that list before the war starts/when the nation joins could enter. Personally, I'd think that too much paperwork, but I'm throwing the concept out there in case there's interest in that for future wars.
In the current situation, for example, Din could start in an un-attacked town like Hamuji. While Extreme couldn't attack Hamuji, he could move forces near if he choose. Similarly, Din couldn't immediately intercept Extreme's current attack on cities.
I have no problem with the principle of more units emerging - they're already there, they're just legally orbatting up.
EDIT: Scott raised a question so maybe I should explain this further. I'd also like to add his suggestion that, where appropriate, units don't start in "the capital" but rather in "their region", if the commander has a region. The capital was originally put in the charter to have an arbitrary point (so they couldn't all start from their nearest point to the war on some tiny military base), but as an arbitary point, "your region" is just as valid and more sensible. This is for nations like Shireroth, Novatainia, Toketi which have strong individual attachment to certain areas.
Scott's question was on how fair it was for new Tokians to appear in the homeland to stop Extreme. The answer to this that'll hopefully be understandable to most of you (because if you understood Toketi already you wouldn't need to ask the question) is to liken Toketi to Shireroth (or perhaps Babkha). Both have a vast population in various degrees of active-ness. Both enjoy the odd recwar, but are generally hard to coordinate to get more than a couple fighting in any given war that doesn't concern the homeland. As far as the Tokians are concerned, what was sent to Jasonia was like an advance force - maybe a quarter of the force they could potentially muster. Though it took delays to muster a home guard when needed (displaying the lack of easy coordination), it can and did happen. That's where these new three are from. In a war that was meant to be focussed in a particular location far away from NE Apollonia, homeland defence didn't seem too important - especially with the knowledge more commanders could be brought up if needed. That's just what's happening now.
Some nations (Alexandria comes to mind) are organised enough to post an entire national orbat at the start of the war. A quarter of those commanders never register on the forum, and another quarter never do anything in the war unless the particular spot they're stationed gets attacked and one of the active war participants orders them to come on. Personally, I found it most annoying to even begin to keep track of inactive commanders, and just paid attention to active ones. What Toketi has done (and what Shireroth would likely have done had anyone attacked them) is basically the same, but it saves you keeping track of inactive people - because when they do come, they post it so you know they're there. If this is still of concern to some people, a potential addition to the charter could be that, when a nation first enters, they should post a list of all potential commanders. Many may not ever enter the war, but such a list would at least make enemies aware of potential retribution - and nobody not on that list before the war starts/when the nation joins could enter. Personally, I'd think that too much paperwork, but I'm throwing the concept out there in case there's interest in that for future wars.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Re: New Participants
I agree with everything. Though i have questions about the "start in your regions" part.
1. What about situations where there's no strong attachment of an individual to a region? Where do they start from?
2. What if this "region" is a war-torn region? I'll use the current war to explain this question. Its fair to agree that Furfien Tosha conMakain has been attacked constantly by me. Now, say I move to Grot Kesh and Ostshon Kagan regions. Can someone strong attached with Furfien Tosha conMakain come up with a force in that region? I mean, technically/story-wise speaking, i have destroyed all facilities in that region that can launch an attack on me.
3. What if the nation is small? Say Toketi was only Furfein Tosha conMakain. And I attacked all cities simultaneously. Where then do the forces start?
1. What about situations where there's no strong attachment of an individual to a region? Where do they start from?
2. What if this "region" is a war-torn region? I'll use the current war to explain this question. Its fair to agree that Furfien Tosha conMakain has been attacked constantly by me. Now, say I move to Grot Kesh and Ostshon Kagan regions. Can someone strong attached with Furfien Tosha conMakain come up with a force in that region? I mean, technically/story-wise speaking, i have destroyed all facilities in that region that can launch an attack on me.
3. What if the nation is small? Say Toketi was only Furfein Tosha conMakain. And I attacked all cities simultaneously. Where then do the forces start?
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Re: New Participants
The answer to 1 and 3 is the same - where a nation doesn't have regions, they just use the capital. If you attacked every single city in the nation, chances are they don't have extra people to come in but they'd have to start in the countryside, somewhere.
2. Yes, you've attacked the major cities. But in this example, there's plenty of land to the south of Damev from which an army could be raised that you haven't attacked. If you'd prefer though, they'd just go with the same option as when the capital is attacked - nearby.
2. Yes, you've attacked the major cities. But in this example, there's plenty of land to the south of Damev from which an army could be raised that you haven't attacked. If you'd prefer though, they'd just go with the same option as when the capital is attacked - nearby.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Re: New Participants
Looks like inland capitals come in handy with this idea...
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Re: New Participants
Raising armies is possible, even from the cities.2. Yes, you've attacked the major cities. But in this example, there's plenty of land to the south of Damev from which an army could be raised that you haven't attacked. If you'd prefer though, they'd just go with the same option as when the capital is attacked - nearby.
But when you are getting units that have tanks, aircrafts, ships, then those things are a bit hard to raise from such cities. Or even country sides. How many country sides have 20 front line aircrafts sitting around waiting for action? How many ships do you have randomly sitting on some shores?
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Re: New Participants
In Toketi? At least as many as teller says we have ... (that's the difficulty with internal and external war systems ...)
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Re: New Participants
Meh furfein is a HUGE area... no telling how many secret bunkers, hangars, silos, and barracks there are out there.