List of Micronations - update
Moderator: Staff
- dr-spangle
- Technical Advisor
- Posts: 13072
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:20 pm
- Contact:
Re: List of Micronations - update
I would love for you to use the links I provided and I'm happy to see you like being contrary for the purposes of being contrary.
A lovely ideology you have there.
A lovely ideology you have there.
- chrimigules
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:04 am
Re: List of Micronations - update
Why is such a disrespectful person even being given attention?
Коля лает «гав-гав».
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 am
Re: List of Micronations - update
I'm not sure how much more simply I can explain things for you:dr-spangle wrote:I would love for you to use the links I provided and I'm happy to see you like being contrary for the purposes of being contrary.
A lovely ideology you have there.
1. For the past year I have been progressively creating an objective list of past and current micronations of all varieties. That list is eventually intended to be as exhaustive as practicable from an historical perspective. Such an enterprise has never before been attempted.
2. When I become aware, or am made aware, of a micronation, I make a note of its existence, and eventually it gets added to my list. You made me aware of several micronations of which I was previously unaware, ergo they will eventually be added to the list.
3. I am not expending my time and energy to merely create a convenient opt-in contact site for micronational hobbyists and dabblers. I am documenting micronations as an historical phenomenon for the primary benefit of people from outside the micronation community, who might wish to research or better understand the phenomenon and its various manifestations.
Therefore, if a micronation existed/exists and is documented on my list, it does not get deleted merely because someone associated with that micronation has a hissy fit and "demands" that I remove it.
Were you to attempt to "demand" that Encyclopedia Britannica delete some piece of content to which you took exception, you'd be told to take a hike, because Britannica's credibility and the reliability of its content are its bankable commodities. I operate on exactly the same principle.
- dr-spangle
- Technical Advisor
- Posts: 13072
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:20 pm
- Contact:
Re: List of Micronations - update
1)Forumlist has been in operation since 2007.
2)Forumlist is used m=by many people outside the micronational community
3)If the work was someone elses intellectual property, encyclopedia britannica would have to remove it, you wouldn't find songs on the cd version of encyclopedia britannica. Those nations are my intellectual property and I request you remove them. I've been kind.
2)Forumlist is used m=by many people outside the micronational community
3)If the work was someone elses intellectual property, encyclopedia britannica would have to remove it, you wouldn't find songs on the cd version of encyclopedia britannica. Those nations are my intellectual property and I request you remove them. I've been kind.
-
- Posts: 5024
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: Novatainia
- Contact:
Re: List of Micronations - update
List, I understand that you're trying to make an academic resource; and that you're working to your own time timetable. And that's fine.
However, within that, the point is validly raised that a micronation is the intellectual property of its creators. And so if some people do not wish their intellectual property to be associated with your list, for whatever reason; it seems a valid request that it not be referenced in your list (particularly if such referencing includes the proper names of individuals who have made it clear they do not want their proper names to be associated with their micronational career in the long term, even if they have told their true names to some friends within the hobby at an earlier point in time). If your list already had every micronation in existence upon it, and correct details for them, then removing one would seem a more serious matter. However, considering that, as you have yourself admitted, the Virtual List is still a work in progress, and many nations are not listed on it (for example, none of my nations are yet listed on it); and the easily available details for many more nations are not listed on it, removing one because the creator has asked you not to relay their intellectual property hardly seems an excessive request, nor any significant loss to your list. It would also do much for your good will within this micronational community; and while good will with the entities you are studying is not a pre-requisite for academic research, you can surely see that it will be helpful in the long run.
As you have said, you're working to your own timetable, so I'll leave you to that. When you've finished including all the relevant details that are publicly available from Spangle's list, I'll be happy to tell you missing details for my nations. Until then, I'll leave you to continue at your own pace.
PS: Would it help if I told you that Bosworth "publicly advocate the prosecution of acts of criminality" (though I wonder if that sentence is worded badly ... Apart from anarchist nations, I would think all approve the prosecution of criminals). I can give a link to one of their trials if required.
However, within that, the point is validly raised that a micronation is the intellectual property of its creators. And so if some people do not wish their intellectual property to be associated with your list, for whatever reason; it seems a valid request that it not be referenced in your list (particularly if such referencing includes the proper names of individuals who have made it clear they do not want their proper names to be associated with their micronational career in the long term, even if they have told their true names to some friends within the hobby at an earlier point in time). If your list already had every micronation in existence upon it, and correct details for them, then removing one would seem a more serious matter. However, considering that, as you have yourself admitted, the Virtual List is still a work in progress, and many nations are not listed on it (for example, none of my nations are yet listed on it); and the easily available details for many more nations are not listed on it, removing one because the creator has asked you not to relay their intellectual property hardly seems an excessive request, nor any significant loss to your list. It would also do much for your good will within this micronational community; and while good will with the entities you are studying is not a pre-requisite for academic research, you can surely see that it will be helpful in the long run.
As you have said, you're working to your own timetable, so I'll leave you to that. When you've finished including all the relevant details that are publicly available from Spangle's list, I'll be happy to tell you missing details for my nations. Until then, I'll leave you to continue at your own pace.
PS: Would it help if I told you that Bosworth "publicly advocate the prosecution of acts of criminality" (though I wonder if that sentence is worded badly ... Apart from anarchist nations, I would think all approve the prosecution of criminals). I can give a link to one of their trials if required.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 am
Re: List of Micronations - update
Your intellectual property is collectively the files, original words and original images that comprise the publicly accessible websites which you own. This includes the names of your micronations (if they are original).dr-spangle wrote:Those nations are my intellectual property and I request you remove them. I've been kind.
However, under the fair use provision of US copyright law - which is the law that applies in this instance because that's where my website is hosted - the limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders (ie you), for non-commercial purposes such as scholarship or review is perfectly acceptable.
So, to put it nicely: bugger off and stop your whining.
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 am
Re: List of Micronations - update
See my comments to the Spangle-rific one re Fair Use.Andreas the Wise wrote:the point is validly raised that a micronation is the intellectual property of its creators.
If someone has a valid reason to disassociate themselves from the list (such as seeking employment with the CIA or the KGB), I've no issues with modifying the relevant entry. However, those who have "demanded" that I not list their projects in this forum have no such valid reason; they are merely being petulant and petty.Andreas the Wise wrote: And so if some people do not wish their intellectual property to be associated with your list, for whatever reason; it seems a valid request that it not be referenced in your list (particularly if such referencing includes the proper names of individuals who have made it clear they do not want their proper names to be associated with their micronational career in the long term, even if they have told their true names to some friends within the hobby at an earlier point in time).
Insofar as real names go, if people want anonymity, they should not publish their personal details on the public internet.
In this regard it's important to note that the personal name data on my list is drawn from two sources:
1. People who proactively contacted me, provided me with their details, and asked me to publish those details on my site.
2. Publicly available online sources (ie micronation websites) which I personally researched.
It is disingenuous - if not downright moronic - to try to blame me for incorporating into my list facts that the complainant themselves placed in the public domain.
I do, but frankly, given what I've seen in my periodic attempts to engage in coherent discussion here - where the simplest attempt at rational discourse frequently sets off a surreal, hysterical outburst from the thin-skinned ninny-du-jour - I can't say I'm particularly fussed.Andreas the Wise wrote: It would also do much for your good will within this micronational community; and while good will with the entities you are studying is not a pre-requisite for academic research, you can surely see that it will be helpful in the long run.
Sounds like a plan.Andreas the Wise wrote:When you've finished including all the relevant details that are publicly available from Spangle's list, I'll be happy to tell you missing details for my nations. Until then, I'll leave you to continue at your own pace.
That condition was written with specific reference to serious crimes such as murder, terrorism and wearing beige polyester bellbottom trousers - where external parties might believe those responsible have the capacity to carry out such acts, and where my listing the micronation in question might possibly be misconstrued as advocacy.Andreas the Wise wrote:PS: Would it help if I told you that Bosworth "publicly advocate the prosecution of acts of criminality" (though I wonder if that sentence is worded badly ... Apart from anarchist nations, I would think all approve the prosecution of criminals). I can give a link to one of their trials if required.
- nick112147
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:02 am
- Location: Uranus
- Contact:
Re: List of Micronations - update
...
Were you born this ignorant or did you practice at it?
I'm so sorry to be so rude but.....dude....we're all friends/adults here. You came in with your snobby attitude and you got bit for it. When one digs oneself into a hole, it is wisest to stop, not dig deeper.
Were you born this ignorant or did you practice at it?
I'm so sorry to be so rude but.....dude....we're all friends/adults here. You came in with your snobby attitude and you got bit for it. When one digs oneself into a hole, it is wisest to stop, not dig deeper.
~The great and powerful Electric Wizard of Oz
Re: List of Micronations - update
Hey.. list.. (seems as you aparantly enjoy giving people lil cutey nicknames, maybe I should, as well, for you.. or perhaps.. 'Hey.. georgilicious'.. but, actually, thinking about it.. liscious sounds like delicious which can be used as a new-age-word for good-looking.. so I don't think it quite fits)
So wonderful for you to be on our forums again.. its always a pleasure, I'm sure. I just thought I'd make you aware of a little something thats happening right around now. In the UK, and probably the US, employers are searching the names of their applicants to find out what they're like as a person. They'll check myspaces, facebooks, see what appears in google. Now, say someone hacked a forum of x's. x's forum was on your little list and x prefered to stay anonymous on his boards. Somehow, you found out x's name was really Bob Marley and filed that piece of information on your list. Employer searches 'Bob Marley' into google (pretending nothing about the singer comes up and they've been person specific), they see his name in your list. They click a few links.. and get to their hacked forum where people are running riot with sexual innuendos, general flaming and the such from the hacking. Remember, x hasn't put his name on that board.. so the employer is just going to see that shit and think the guy had some freaky friends, that was him being abusive or your information was inaccurate.. and god forbid that third one happened.
I think people should be able to request their real name not be given.. or at least changed to a psydo, for that very reason. Same, if moreso, with addresses ect.. also, now, I know I'm just a "ignorant, presumptuous, disrespectful, self-obsessed whelp".. but I think 'spanglicious' (more deservant name-wise.. though, that nickname sounds a little gay) should be allowed to not have his nations mentioned and Cairney should be allowed to request his nation not be on your list, aswell. You say they're having a hissy fit.. but you are back, stamping your feet saying how taking anything out would be somehow making your list 'accacurate to the truth'. Though.. aparantly you don't care about others, here.. so perhaps this whole post was spoilt on a toddler. .. ah well.
So wonderful for you to be on our forums again.. its always a pleasure, I'm sure. I just thought I'd make you aware of a little something thats happening right around now. In the UK, and probably the US, employers are searching the names of their applicants to find out what they're like as a person. They'll check myspaces, facebooks, see what appears in google. Now, say someone hacked a forum of x's. x's forum was on your little list and x prefered to stay anonymous on his boards. Somehow, you found out x's name was really Bob Marley and filed that piece of information on your list. Employer searches 'Bob Marley' into google (pretending nothing about the singer comes up and they've been person specific), they see his name in your list. They click a few links.. and get to their hacked forum where people are running riot with sexual innuendos, general flaming and the such from the hacking. Remember, x hasn't put his name on that board.. so the employer is just going to see that shit and think the guy had some freaky friends, that was him being abusive or your information was inaccurate.. and god forbid that third one happened.
I think people should be able to request their real name not be given.. or at least changed to a psydo, for that very reason. Same, if moreso, with addresses ect.. also, now, I know I'm just a "ignorant, presumptuous, disrespectful, self-obsessed whelp".. but I think 'spanglicious' (more deservant name-wise.. though, that nickname sounds a little gay) should be allowed to not have his nations mentioned and Cairney should be allowed to request his nation not be on your list, aswell. You say they're having a hissy fit.. but you are back, stamping your feet saying how taking anything out would be somehow making your list 'accacurate to the truth'. Though.. aparantly you don't care about others, here.. so perhaps this whole post was spoilt on a toddler. .. ah well.
<PM-account only>
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 am
Re: List of Micronations - update
I have two questions:
1. What drugs has that brat Cadan been feeding you?
2. Can I have some?
1. What drugs has that brat Cadan been feeding you?
2. Can I have some?
Re: List of Micronations - update
Well, my serious acusation friend..
A) Just cause cadan didn't like your list, and made his own, doesn't mean hes a brat
B) Never accuse me of taking drugs you .. lovely man
C) Its whats happening.. hence why we've recently had someone from our boards change all his names and delete most of his sites/posts lately.. people have been sacked due to their facebook pages!
A) Just cause cadan didn't like your list, and made his own, doesn't mean hes a brat
B) Never accuse me of taking drugs you .. lovely man
C) Its whats happening.. hence why we've recently had someone from our boards change all his names and delete most of his sites/posts lately.. people have been sacked due to their facebook pages!
<PM-account only>
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 am
Re: List of Micronations - update
You're obviously confusing me with someone else.nick112147 wrote:You came in with your snobby attitude and you got bit for it.
I posted a message advising that the latest update to my project was complete.
One person responded by petulantly demanding that I remove him from my list, "or else".
I refused and explained my reasons in detail.
The end.
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 am
Re: List of Micronations - update
A) He's a brat because he acts like a 6 year-old, is rude, disrespectful, obnoxious, has a reputation for being obstreperous and puerile (according to several of his real-life friends who shared their opinions on the subject privately with me) and generally carries on like a puffed-up ninny - not because he writes bad wiki articles.Artz wrote:Well, my serious acusation friend..
A) Just cause cadan didn't like your list, and made his own, doesn't mean hes a brat
B) Never accuse me of taking drugs you .. lovely man
C) Its whats happening.. hence why we've recently had someone from our boards change all his names and delete most of his sites/posts lately.. people have been sacked due to their facebook pages!
B) Don't post forum messages that read like a stream-of-consciousness rant by a psychotic acid-head, and people won't automatically assume you must be on drugs.
C) Lots of things are happening in this universe that have no relationship whatsoever to me or my project; forum hacking is foremost amongst them.
Re: List of Micronations - update
Tis a perfectly feasbile turn of events.. I'm sure if you were taking anything drug-related, you'd be seeing pink elephants, not thinking that your employer was 'gunna come tan your hide. Try imagination.. a lot of great people did things with imagination..
ooh.. see the wonder.. tis a good tool, perhaps you should learn. Creativeness, imagery and fun.
ooh.. see the wonder.. tis a good tool, perhaps you should learn. Creativeness, imagery and fun.
<PM-account only>
- dr-spangle
- Technical Advisor
- Posts: 13072
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:20 pm
- Contact:
Re: List of Micronations - update
A)And by purposely being contrary to my advice, you are not acting like a 6 year old? way to be hypocritical I mioght buy a medal and award you it, but it would be a waste of metal that could better be used to make a computer, medical equipment or a peice of rubbish.List of Micronations wrote:A) He's a brat because he acts like a 6 year-old, is rude, disrespectful, obnoxious, has a reputation for being obstreperous and puerile (according to several of his real-life friends who shared their opinions on the subject privately with me) and generally carries on like a puffed-up ninny - not because he writes bad wiki articles.Artz wrote:Well, my serious acusation friend..
A) Just cause cadan didn't like your list, and made his own, doesn't mean hes a brat
B) Never accuse me of taking drugs you .. lovely man
C) Its whats happening.. hence why we've recently had someone from our boards change all his names and delete most of his sites/posts lately.. people have been sacked due to their facebook pages!
B) Don't post forum messages that read like a stream-of-consciousness rant by a psychotic acid-head, and people won't automatically assume you must be on drugs.
C) Lots of things are happening in this universe that have no relationship whatsoever to me or my project; forum hacking is foremost amongst them.
B)I'm not sure what your fascination with artz being on drugs is, but you should really get some (Before you accuse me of being on drugs, I don't even drink coffee, gluecose is my only drug*) *Excluding pretty much everything else like proteins, fats, etc that modify the way the body funcytions in some way therefore are classified as drugs.
C)He didn't hack anything much bit of social engineering here to get his password back, but that's all beside the point. Some people do not want their personal information listed on your website, they want to keep it on their own site where they can remove it