RECWAR Classes?
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
The wall of text crumbled in on itself and has bruised me badly. However they were highly informative and rather well written bruises, I liked it. As usual you did a good job explaining the complex.
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Re: RECWAR Classes?
Good... real good...
I believe I understand a little more of it... although, I don't feel able to play it!!!! LOL
I believe I understand a little more of it... although, I don't feel able to play it!!!! LOL
Juan Teadoir
Seneschal of the Kingdom of Hamland
Duke of Morfaga
Knight Grand Cross of the Order of Saint Josaphat
Leader of the Hamland National Party
Former Prime Minister (2007-2011)
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
Glad people are finding it useful, given the time it took me to do.
By the by, if people are interested in actually giving it a go, Gralus was planning to hold a test recwar soon to try out our new system. You'd be welcome to join. Particularly if you have no proper recwar experience - that should make it far easier to learn our system and not be confused by other ways of doing things. One warning - like all Gralan wars, this may involve magic. But the system was designed to treat magic natively (ie treat it like any other unit_ and so it should all balance fine and be good.
Follow the link and post your interest if you want to join in.
By the by, if people are interested in actually giving it a go, Gralus was planning to hold a test recwar soon to try out our new system. You'd be welcome to join. Particularly if you have no proper recwar experience - that should make it far easier to learn our system and not be confused by other ways of doing things. One warning - like all Gralan wars, this may involve magic. But the system was designed to treat magic natively (ie treat it like any other unit_ and so it should all balance fine and be good.
Follow the link and post your interest if you want to join in.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
Re: RECWAR Classes?
^ That would make a damn good micras wiki article, Andreas!
Anyway,
Is anyone interested in holding annunia type recwar games in Ashkenatza? I've done them before, so I could easily be the judge.
Anyway,
Is anyone interested in holding annunia type recwar games in Ashkenatza? I've done them before, so I could easily be the judge.
- Guido Zambelis
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
No, because it just descended into an advert for your unending obsession with points-based systems, and one in particular.
Re: RECWAR Classes?
@ Andreas: Ahh you are a gem. Quite packed with information and easy to use. I back-up the whole wiki article thing.. would be nice to keep that around.
@ general: I still think a guided mini-RECWAR would be useful to put it into practice. Hopefully before this RP begins to tie into a recwar situation. Or perhaps that could be the guided one.. *shrugs* we'll see how things go.
@ general: I still think a guided mini-RECWAR would be useful to put it into practice. Hopefully before this RP begins to tie into a recwar situation. Or perhaps that could be the guided one.. *shrugs* we'll see how things go.
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- Lord_Montague
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
Was that at Aster or Andreas? Sounds like it was at Andreas....Guido Zambelis wrote:No, because it just descended into an advert for your unending obsession with points-based systems, and one in particular.
And I wont be coming along to point based recwar in Gralus. I don't like magic in whatever form it was. My conventional weaponry was enough to wipe out a few cities better than magic.
In Battle; Unbeatable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
- Guido Zambelis
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
Guido Zambelis wrote:No, because it just descended into an advert for your unending obsession with points-based systems, and one in particular.
You make me laugh. You must have missed my QUARREL phase (which come to think of it is still going, at least as soon as I get into holidays and have time for more programming). Don't worry, I wasn't expecting you guys to want to participate, I was thinking more people like Artz.
EDIT: And Artz and co, we would certainly make it more guided than we otherwise would if some of you guys did come along.
Last edited by Andreas the Wise on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
- Guido Zambelis
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
Missed it? Not sure that's possibleAndreas the Wise wrote: You make me laugh. You must have missed my QUARREL phase
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
ADB wasn't particularly complicated. Certainly not more than QUARREL. All you needed was MS Excel. It just requires a bit more maintenance because forces are persistent and the judges would calculate unit costs precisely. Once start-up was handled, it worked quite well. The essentials of battle were similar, but proposed to be a little more dynamic. The key was a much more active judiciary who would handle more of the calculations and decisions. It only looked complex because I gave out the Excel equation rather than the spreadsheet.
The big problem with Quarrel as far as I can see is that it's not much off a Civ game. While that's fine for some, it's not really accurate. Smaller forces can outmatch larger ones, and it's not a particular question of luck or chance. Nor is it a question of rock-paper-scissors. Infantry are quite capable of beating tanks, even if outnumbered. It's simply a question of how you deploy them. There's a danger of making it far too numerical, without understanding the basic dynamics of how forces actually fight.
The big problem with Quarrel as far as I can see is that it's not much off a Civ game. While that's fine for some, it's not really accurate. Smaller forces can outmatch larger ones, and it's not a particular question of luck or chance. Nor is it a question of rock-paper-scissors. Infantry are quite capable of beating tanks, even if outnumbered. It's simply a question of how you deploy them. There's a danger of making it far too numerical, without understanding the basic dynamics of how forces actually fight.
Re: RECWAR Classes?
Surely though, thats true in real life?Behmanesh FarzAn wrote: Infantry are quite capable of beating tanks, even if outnumbered. It's simply a question of how you deploy them.
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
That's my point. Calculating it as tank > infantry is misleading.
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Re: RECWAR Classes?
I was just relating my memories of ADB at the time. Thinking back, it catered well for those who were interested in a strong, realistic war simulation, particularly with unit costings and deriving strength on a more national than personal basis. That's fine for those who like that. I fit more into the category of people who couldn't care less the specific range of that specific AA unit, and would much rather deal with generics (and avoid disputes, I've grown to loathe them over the years). I also think that's easier for new recwarrers - when I get a chance after exams, I hope to move QUARREL from the state it's currently in (halfway between complex and simple), to release a stand alone basic version which anyone can pick up easily. A proper complex one can be built up from there and released when it's fully ready.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
Re: RECWAR Classes?
In Andreas's defense, and QUARREL's defense, and point-based systems' defenses in general... at least in my experience, most people are not remotely interested in having a fun time while recwarring and even the most simplistic military actions get bogged down when the inherent vagueness of the system's models are subjected to repeated questioning that they were simply not made to endure. This almost always ends up with people wiking real life military vehicles and claiming that one side cannot possibly have done what they claim to do because the flight ceiling of such and such bombers means it is out of range of those missiles or intercepting aircraft, when all the second guy wanted to do was post a simplistic response ("I shoot anti-air missiles / launch my fighters") to a relatively simplistic attack ("I'm going to bombing you now.")
There's only two ways out of this. Either the players come to consensus (the ideal situation, but rarely happens) or they toss the whole thing off to another mediating body. In the recwars we have here, that means the judges. But, as I found out quite recently, being a judge doesn't mean I'm instantly an authority on the specifications of every military vehicle in the world, nor does it mean that whatever I say happen will actually be accepted.
The alternative to judging by humans is judging by a computer simulation. That was what QUARREL was designed for - to act as a mediator when parties really can't decide on their own what should happen. You don't have to run every battle through QUARREL, though you could. You just run the ones where people are disputing and accept the answers. Sometimes they might not conform exactly to real life military hardware, but hey, it's a poorly designed wargame simulation to begin with. If nothing else QUARREL's results are consistent and unbiased, which is more than I can say about any human.
Is the points-based thing a bit boring? Yeah. Wouldn't it be better if we didn't need that crap? Absolutely. But close to a decade of recwar has shown that, unless it's an internal recwar where everyone just agrees to be civil, the more checks and balances there are on the players, the less likely the whole thing is to get downright awful for everyone involved.
There's only two ways out of this. Either the players come to consensus (the ideal situation, but rarely happens) or they toss the whole thing off to another mediating body. In the recwars we have here, that means the judges. But, as I found out quite recently, being a judge doesn't mean I'm instantly an authority on the specifications of every military vehicle in the world, nor does it mean that whatever I say happen will actually be accepted.
The alternative to judging by humans is judging by a computer simulation. That was what QUARREL was designed for - to act as a mediator when parties really can't decide on their own what should happen. You don't have to run every battle through QUARREL, though you could. You just run the ones where people are disputing and accept the answers. Sometimes they might not conform exactly to real life military hardware, but hey, it's a poorly designed wargame simulation to begin with. If nothing else QUARREL's results are consistent and unbiased, which is more than I can say about any human.
Is the points-based thing a bit boring? Yeah. Wouldn't it be better if we didn't need that crap? Absolutely. But close to a decade of recwar has shown that, unless it's an internal recwar where everyone just agrees to be civil, the more checks and balances there are on the players, the less likely the whole thing is to get downright awful for everyone involved.
I agree, I really do. This position is not at all contrary with what I said above though. None of us are real generals, and we certainly don't have a robust enough simulation to do real tactics. You can describe a military maneuver in extreme detail. Would it work in real life? I have no idea and I'm willing to bet nobody else really does either. The point is that recwars aren't a military training exercise. It's just supposed to be for fun mostly, and the surest way to ruin fun is to make it too complicated.While that's fine for some, it's not really accurate. Smaller forces can outmatch larger ones, and it's not a particular question of luck or chance. Nor is it a question of rock-paper-scissors. Infantry are quite capable of beating tanks, even if outnumbered. It's simply a question of how you deploy them. There's a danger of making it far too numerical, without understanding the basic dynamics of how forces actually fight.