An Announcement
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Re: An Announcement
I tried, they're not letting me. I requested a trial now by the last supreme judge of a now-defunct micronational organisation, and he is impartial, and yet they wont let me.Einhorn wrote:Personally, if you feel that if you were in the right, you should appeal it.
I don't want you to do anything for me, I want to do something for you, I want to warn you, that was all. Also, this is pretty much the only platform where I can actually declare my opinion because they have banned me from all others.Einhorn wrote:But I echo Guido's words, you have our sympathy but there isn't much we can do (there is, but we are not inclined to because that is a separate community's internal affairs). However, you're more than welcome to hang out here, we're not too fond of banning and we're generally more open.
- Scott Alexander
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Re: An Announcement
I believe the hacking, privacy violation, and sockpuppeting charges against you are independent of your being or not being Dresner. Am I right? In any case, I believe the fact that the identity is widely believed across the micronational world makes this case slightly less black and white than the way you presented it.Sebastian von Linden wrote:It may be old, but that does not mean it isnt true. I am Marco Dresner no more than Tom Cruise is Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg.
I think the best stance Micras could adopt on this matter is innocent until proven guilty, hence my request not to insta-ban you. However, I don't think we should be too willing to condemn Fish & Co for acting to protect their community based on their best analysis of the situation.
By this point, I am ready to believe practically anyone who uses the "Robert Lethler made me do it" excuse. SHINE has already identified Lethler as a potential high-level threat and begun Operation Iridescent Tetra to assess and contain the issue.Einhorn wrote:I find that one slightly annoying as it is always pulled out after someone calls them on being an asshole. "Oh I was just in character, I wasn't being a dick, my character was". I've seen it happen quite a few times (almost verbatim) and on occasion they get away with it.
Scott Alexander | Autokrator of Archipelago (What is Archipelago?)
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Re: An Announcement
Robert Lethler can make people... do things?Scott Alexander wrote:By this point, I am ready to believe practically anyone who uses the "Robert Lethler made me do it" excuse. SHINE has already identified Lethler as a potential high-level threat and begun Operation Iridescent Tetra to assess and contain the issue.
...
Oh dear lord, Robert Lethler is Archetype!!
Jesa habe Ljo kju Ljo toka par tokajj Ljo kju De habe!
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Re: An Announcement
The sockpuppeting charges were pardoned, the hacking charges have no foundation, no evidence, so all that remains is the privacy violation which isnt really one because a person's surname is not protected by privacy legislation. This was confirmed to me by the legal team of YouTube (!)Scott Alexander wrote:I believe the hacking, privacy violation, and sockpuppeting charges against you are independent of your being or not being Dresner. Am I right? In any case, I believe the fact that the identity is widely believed across the micronational world makes this case slightly less black and white than the way you presented it.Sebastian von Linden wrote:It may be old, but that does not mean it isnt true. I am Marco Dresner no more than Tom Cruise is Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg.
I'm not saying you should, I'm just making my point.Scott Alexander wrote:I think the best stance Micras could adopt on this matter is innocent until proven guilty, hence my request not to insta-ban you. However, I don't think we should be too willing to condemn Fish & Co for acting to protect their community based on their best analysis of the situation.
[/quote]Scott Alexander wrote:By this point, I am ready to believe practically anyone who uses the "Robert Lethler made me do it" excuse. SHINE has already identified Lethler as a potential high-level threat and begun Operation Iridescent Tetra to assess and contain the issue.Einhorn wrote:I find that one slightly annoying as it is always pulled out after someone calls them on being an asshole. "Oh I was just in character, I wasn't being a dick, my character was". I've seen it happen quite a few times (almost verbatim) and on occasion they get away with it.
Yes, I got banned by Robert Lethler because I criticised him, so I had to return under a guise.
Re: An Announcement
Don't just ban von Linden Dresner, give him something several levels above what happened to William !@#$%^&. You'll be happy you did.
Hâlian, Magic: The Gathering player/baseball and gridiron fan/computer guy/conlinguist and worldbuilder/tabletop and video game fan too
Re: An Announcement
I suspect that we may never see a point where he is proven guilty or otherwise. Simply because I've been mucking around in this hobby for 6 years and I know how people in the hobby can get. But you are right in that we should presume innocence until proven otherwise. To be honest I am not very eager to begin shunning or starting rivalries with another community because of one person's account, no matter how convincing or credible it may be. Condemning neither party is probably the best possible thing we can do.Scott Alexander wrote:I think the best stance Micras could adopt on this matter is innocent until proven guilty, hence my request not to insta-ban you. However, I don't think we should be too willing to condemn Fish & Co for acting to protect their community based on their best analysis of the situation.
Everybody has pulled more than their share of dick moves in the hobby, every last one of us. So really, we shouldn't throw stones since we're in a glass house. It will just be nice to spy through our windows at the glass house next to us (MicroWiki) and watch them throw stones at each other.
LOLRLY? Lets ban everyone who ever pulled a dick move right now!Don't just ban von Linden Dresner, give him something several levels above what happened to William !@#$%^&.
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Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
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Re: An Announcement
Well, unless anything actually happens, I'm not gonna be banning anyoneScott Alexander wrote:I think the best stance Micras could adopt on this matter is innocent until proven guilty, hence my request not to insta-ban you. However, I don't think we should be too willing to condemn Fish & Co for acting to protect their community based on their best analysis of the situation.
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Re: An Announcement
Eh?
I think you're mistaking the William Danforth character for another one, because
a) he was the personification of friendliness
b) nothing ever happened to him.
I think you're mistaking the William Danforth character for another one, because
a) he was the personification of friendliness
b) nothing ever happened to him.
I agree, I expected you to remain neutral.Einhorn wrote:Condemning neither party is probably the best possible thing we can do.
Re: An Announcement
CJ is talking about a different William, one whose last name I'm not going to mention because goddamnit, if I had a time machine I would go back and kill Theopompus for dropping the ball on the damnatio memoriae on Herostratus.
Last edited by ari on Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jesa habe Ljo kju Ljo toka par tokajj Ljo kju De habe!
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Re: An Announcement
Am I the only one brave enough? Voldemort...Ari Rahikkala wrote:whose last name I'm not going to mention
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Re: An Announcement
DAMMIT ARI, I had totally succeeded in my attempt to deliberately forget Herostratus' name before you brought it up!
Scott Alexander | Autokrator of Archipelago (What is Archipelago?)
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
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Re: An Announcement
I was pardoned by the community for all crimes I commited as the character of Dresner. What you're saying is a very bold distortion of what actually happened.Scott Alexander wrote:Oh, this guy has a SHINE dossier a mile long.
Sebastian von Linden is widely considered to be the same person as Mark Dresner/Ann-Marie Myers/Friederic, a notorious sock puppeteer wanted across the micronational world for backstabbing, hacking, and revealing people's real names without their consent. The MicroWiki community has quite reasonably decided to ban him after having to ban several of his other aliases. King Anthony of Zealandia has been the only person to completely defy the ban, having chosen to harbor von Linden in his nation. The MicroWiki administration agreed to ban King Anthony for breaking the interdict on Dresner.
(it is a little known historical fact, but our own community has a similar interdict: several of us are bound by treaty to not only declare war on Thomas Hubert wherever and whensoever he shows himself, but to declare war on anyone who harbors or engages with Thomas Hubert. It's for the best, trust me.)
Anyhow, Philip Fish has decided to put the ban on King Anthony to community-wide vote and the ban on Dresner/etc. has already been approved by community-wide vote. After several weeks of exploring the MicroWiki community, I have seen nothing but good things about Fish and the other admins, and nothing but horror stories about Dresner.
I believe everyone deserves a second chance (except Hubert, Sager, Bob Silby, and several other people I can't be bothered to think of at the moment), and I would not necessarily support von Linden's immediate ban from this community, but I would urge Spangle to sleep with one eye open (assuming Spangle sleeps, which I am by no means certain about) and for the rest of the community to trust nothing he says.
- chrimigules
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Re: An Announcement
I can't believe I just read this entire thread!!!
PSYCHE
tl;dr. Ask me if I care.
PSYCHE
tl;dr. Ask me if I care.
Коля лает «гав-гав».
- Scott Alexander
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Re: An Announcement
Possible. I only know of this second-hand from reading wikis and archives. I'll wait until some of the real MicroWiki folk arrive to verify the story.I was pardoned by the community for all crimes I commited as the character of Dresner. What you're saying is a very bold distortion of what actually happened.
Scott Alexander | Autokrator of Archipelago (What is Archipelago?)
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Re: An Announcement
I don't believe more than a few words of this, but even if it's true, Fish has more of my support now. As an occasional ruthless guy myself, I know the value of getting an occasional upstart to STFU. Well played, sir Fish!
In any event, I consider the fact that we're a battleground between Microwiki and Micras as a good sign that our communities are becoming closer. Come on everyone: group hug!
In any event, I consider the fact that we're a battleground between Microwiki and Micras as a good sign that our communities are becoming closer. Come on everyone: group hug!