An Announcement
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Re: An Announcement
*takes deep breath*
I hope that everyone can see why I left MicroWiki - stuff like this just hangs around like a bad smell forevermore, amen. There's also a quote from Goebbels which seems appropriate to the situation: "If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth".
Firstly, Dresner/von Linden/Danforth/whoever (let's just call him 'von Linden' for the sake of easier reading), was never ever "pardoned by the community". As shown by the poll on the MW Forum, almost every single person approves of the blanket ban for what he did. I also understand that most people here are unfamiliar with the backstory/what he did, so I will attempt to enlighten you in the shortest way possible.
The wiki page on Mark Dresner sheds light on the early days. After he was exposed by Robert Lethler, there was a 'lull' of about three months, after which a new nation called 'Eleytheria' appeared with 'Willilam Danforth' as its head. After a few months of this, many began to suspect that William Danforth was none other than Mark Dresner, and evidence was gathered. However, after another few months of this, 'William Danforth' stated that he was, in fact, 'Mark Dresner'. Now we made a very stupid and short-sighted decision - most of us welcomed him back with open arms. Over the next few months, arguments were stirred up and users flamed on the OAM Forum, which was then pretty much the de facto forum for the MW Sector. Then he underwent a series of reincarnations, eventually emerging as 'Sebastiano von Linden'. After this, his demeanour and behaviour took a turn for the worst. I won't go through exactly what, as I could go on for many paragraphs, but all that needs to be known it was more trolling and flaming. Finally, in November last year, this happened. I accept now that I may have overreacted slightly, but it's no excuse for what happened. The references have now been removed, by von Linden posted my real name multiple times in multiple posts, violating the OAM's rules as well as in a YouTube video. After that, he was banned from the OAM under the provisions of Resolution 28 ( :O ), which are basically the rules for the OAM. After that, he was banned from the MicroWiki and all its resources. A few weeks later, Eleytheria combined with the Kingdom of Zealandia, headed by King Anthony, who is one of his very few supporters left. Ever since, he's been using Zealandia and King Anthony to continue his attacks on the MW Sector, which have included, but are not limited to, a DDoS attack on the MicroWiki Server, attempting to access the MW Server CPanel, blacklisting the microwiki.co.cc domain and continuing to broadcast my real name multiple times in public.
Firstly, the whole "an eye for an eye" thing with regards to the names is ridiculous and an incorrect comparison to make. Me calling him 'Dresner' is just me calling him by a pseudonym under which he was previously known, and which many people used to call him anyway. Him calling me by my real name in public is in fact a violation of Victorian Privacy Legislation (I mean the Australian State of Victoria - the 'real one' ). The video in which he said my real name had around 70 views until it was removed, meaning that quite a few people can now find out where I work, where I live, where my relatives live, my home phone number and many other personal details which I obviously don't want to be released, which is the entire reason why 99% of micronationalists use a pseudonym. As a matter of fact, I know exactly where von Linden lives, his phone number, real name and other personal details, but I have not and will not release them to anyone or anything (as tempting as it has been).
Secondly, we have undeniable evidence to prove that he is a seasoned internet troll, doing similar things in at least 20 other internet communities (well, the ones we could find in half an hour of Google searching).
Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly (so important it's in bold! :O): I never ever said that Micras or the MCS was not part of micronationalism, in the OAM forum or any other place. I have no idea where he got that fantasy idea from - probably spending too much time on the computer.
Fourthly, the MW Community have given von Linden I don't know how many chances in the past, and he has conclusively blown every single one of them. This isn't the first time he's been warned/banned - it happened also last year under circumstances that escape my memory.
Fifthly, this:
I seriously implore everyone not to believe a word that von Linden or his very few but very loud supporters say. If you don't believe what I have said or want other people's opinions on the matter to verify everything, pretty much everyone else in the MW Sector who knows what happened and why will be able to vouch for it. He's decided to bring the argument here, again, to stir up trouble and flame. If you were to take a look at what havoc he has wreaked in MicroWiki over the past few months, you'll understand why we got rid of him and why we still don't want him back by any stretch of the imagination. You're all sensible and reasonable people, so please take a look at what I've said.
EDIT: And just for the record, I'm not replying to this thread anymore. Simple reason:
I hope that everyone can see why I left MicroWiki - stuff like this just hangs around like a bad smell forevermore, amen. There's also a quote from Goebbels which seems appropriate to the situation: "If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth".
Firstly, Dresner/von Linden/Danforth/whoever (let's just call him 'von Linden' for the sake of easier reading), was never ever "pardoned by the community". As shown by the poll on the MW Forum, almost every single person approves of the blanket ban for what he did. I also understand that most people here are unfamiliar with the backstory/what he did, so I will attempt to enlighten you in the shortest way possible.
The wiki page on Mark Dresner sheds light on the early days. After he was exposed by Robert Lethler, there was a 'lull' of about three months, after which a new nation called 'Eleytheria' appeared with 'Willilam Danforth' as its head. After a few months of this, many began to suspect that William Danforth was none other than Mark Dresner, and evidence was gathered. However, after another few months of this, 'William Danforth' stated that he was, in fact, 'Mark Dresner'. Now we made a very stupid and short-sighted decision - most of us welcomed him back with open arms. Over the next few months, arguments were stirred up and users flamed on the OAM Forum, which was then pretty much the de facto forum for the MW Sector. Then he underwent a series of reincarnations, eventually emerging as 'Sebastiano von Linden'. After this, his demeanour and behaviour took a turn for the worst. I won't go through exactly what, as I could go on for many paragraphs, but all that needs to be known it was more trolling and flaming. Finally, in November last year, this happened. I accept now that I may have overreacted slightly, but it's no excuse for what happened. The references have now been removed, by von Linden posted my real name multiple times in multiple posts, violating the OAM's rules as well as in a YouTube video. After that, he was banned from the OAM under the provisions of Resolution 28 ( :O ), which are basically the rules for the OAM. After that, he was banned from the MicroWiki and all its resources. A few weeks later, Eleytheria combined with the Kingdom of Zealandia, headed by King Anthony, who is one of his very few supporters left. Ever since, he's been using Zealandia and King Anthony to continue his attacks on the MW Sector, which have included, but are not limited to, a DDoS attack on the MicroWiki Server, attempting to access the MW Server CPanel, blacklisting the microwiki.co.cc domain and continuing to broadcast my real name multiple times in public.
Firstly, the whole "an eye for an eye" thing with regards to the names is ridiculous and an incorrect comparison to make. Me calling him 'Dresner' is just me calling him by a pseudonym under which he was previously known, and which many people used to call him anyway. Him calling me by my real name in public is in fact a violation of Victorian Privacy Legislation (I mean the Australian State of Victoria - the 'real one' ). The video in which he said my real name had around 70 views until it was removed, meaning that quite a few people can now find out where I work, where I live, where my relatives live, my home phone number and many other personal details which I obviously don't want to be released, which is the entire reason why 99% of micronationalists use a pseudonym. As a matter of fact, I know exactly where von Linden lives, his phone number, real name and other personal details, but I have not and will not release them to anyone or anything (as tempting as it has been).
Secondly, we have undeniable evidence to prove that he is a seasoned internet troll, doing similar things in at least 20 other internet communities (well, the ones we could find in half an hour of Google searching).
Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly (so important it's in bold! :O): I never ever said that Micras or the MCS was not part of micronationalism, in the OAM forum or any other place. I have no idea where he got that fantasy idea from - probably spending too much time on the computer.
Fourthly, the MW Community have given von Linden I don't know how many chances in the past, and he has conclusively blown every single one of them. This isn't the first time he's been warned/banned - it happened also last year under circumstances that escape my memory.
Fifthly, this:
is wrong, as I'm sure you can see from Jonathan's posts, he's anything but impartial. Jonathan, in fact, has something of a personal vendetta against me. Many times in the past I've had to point out to him that his micronation, Austenasia, is not a "sovereign nation" as he has claimed many times in the past. This hasn't exactly endeared me to him. Also, might I add, the GUM (Grand Unified Micronational) was disbanded by its Acting Chairman, James Puchowski, last year, and said yesterday on Skype that he 100% does not support any sort of 'trial' involving the GUM, for the good reason that he wants nothing to do with it and the even better reason that the GUM does not exist. It's like asking for a trial from the League of Nations.Sebastian von Linden wrote:He is impartial, trust him. After all he has been Acting Supreme Judge of the Grand Unified Micronational.
I seriously implore everyone not to believe a word that von Linden or his very few but very loud supporters say. If you don't believe what I have said or want other people's opinions on the matter to verify everything, pretty much everyone else in the MW Sector who knows what happened and why will be able to vouch for it. He's decided to bring the argument here, again, to stir up trouble and flame. If you were to take a look at what havoc he has wreaked in MicroWiki over the past few months, you'll understand why we got rid of him and why we still don't want him back by any stretch of the imagination. You're all sensible and reasonable people, so please take a look at what I've said.
EDIT: And just for the record, I'm not replying to this thread anymore. Simple reason:
Re: An Announcement
Okay, I hereby dub this Fishgate 2011.
Re: An Announcement
2 Nazi references in micronationalism in one week, and here I thought I could get by with just the one . Is studying Nazi Germany extensively a prerequisite to being a micronationalist that I didn't know about?There's also a quote from Goebbels which seems appropriate to the situation: "If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth".
Anyway, it is good to here from you. I had begun to suspect that the entire purpose of this thread was nothing more than a smear campaign by a butthurt (former) member of your community and his lackey. They've spend the last day trying very, very hard to convince us that you're some incarnation of all the world's evil dictators in one person. Judging from your very calm response to this issue and previous dealings with you, I found it extremely suspect from the beginning, but I like giving people the benefit of the doubt (on occasion ). It seems that his ban may have been largely deserved due to a plethora of second chances, mulligans and do-overs, mucking it up every time. I have to say that his efforts to try and mar your name and do it in a way that would try and pit an entire community against one man/group is pathetic and immature.
As for the MCS thing, again this only reinforces my observation that he was here only to engage in a massive smear campaign, hoping for us to back him in some interweb "coup" or support rally or gods knows what!
But I think the best thing we can do here on the hub is wash our hands of this incident and pat ourselves on our backs for waiting for Mr. Fish to come here and explain things rather than lose our cool.
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
- Alexander Reinhardt
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Re: An Announcement
Aaaalright, time for another MicroWiki member to show up and try to clarify the situation to those who are actually interested in what's going on.
Before we start, I'll say I've been in the MicroWiki community since December 2008, which makes me somehow a "reliable" source, other than the fact I'm an administrator at both MicroWiki and its forum (some of you might have even heard of my name before). I've experienced this story since the very beginning, even when Von Linden was known under different personas, such as his real name, or Marco Dresner, Ann-Sophie Myers, and William Danforth. He knows our community more than many other people, having "lived" in it with about 3 different micronations, if I'm not wrong.
Anyway, from a very neutral point of view, and also to be fair: the staff decided to ban Sebastiano and his IP addresses and proxies for various things including the publication of Philip Fish's macronational name, as someone already mentioned, if I'm not wrong. Nevertheless, the operation was carried out without asking the community about it first, which obviously resulted in several complaints. Following this, a vote was held, where the majority of the users still believed Von Linden's ban shouldn't have been revoked in any way. Now, I can understand Sebastiano has claimed the community pardoned him for his past actions as Dresner, and I somehow did too, but if the majority of the community still votes if favour of your ban, then something must be wrong with your data.
It was also said that people were "brainwashed" by the three names mentioned. However, if I can say, another term must be used. People are actually "fed up".
Every single time Von Linden's personas were found out to be fictional characters, the community divided itself in two parts, a bit like O.J Simpson's trial , arguing on who is right and who's wrong. Young members were afraid of a sudden collapse of the community while the old ones (including, unfortunately, me) had the *great* task to try and find a solution to the huge number of pointless arguments. It usually ended up with Von Linden's persona being banned for trying to evade the previous ban, etc. etc. This took place for the fourth time in the last days, and some of us just want to talk about other things. Philip described the situation better than anyone else, actually, whenever you agree with him or not.
Therefore, while the ban might have not been carried out in a fantastic way, the majority of the community decided that we just can't have this situation every four/five months. It just makes you want to leave micronationalism as it becomes a perennial quarrel. Anyway, even if a good number of micronationalists are opposed to the ban of Anthony of Zealandia, who still supports Von Linden albeit an investigation on Sebastian being carried out by the authorities of Zealandia, most of the users are still in favour of keeping Sebastiano out of the forum, in order not to have other arguments, more or less. Needless to say that those who still want to talk to him can do so through Skype, so yeah, Fish is not really that much of a dictator after all.
tl;dr Von Linden was banned because people just can't stand him anymore.
Before we start, I'll say I've been in the MicroWiki community since December 2008, which makes me somehow a "reliable" source, other than the fact I'm an administrator at both MicroWiki and its forum (some of you might have even heard of my name before). I've experienced this story since the very beginning, even when Von Linden was known under different personas, such as his real name, or Marco Dresner, Ann-Sophie Myers, and William Danforth. He knows our community more than many other people, having "lived" in it with about 3 different micronations, if I'm not wrong.
Anyway, from a very neutral point of view, and also to be fair: the staff decided to ban Sebastiano and his IP addresses and proxies for various things including the publication of Philip Fish's macronational name, as someone already mentioned, if I'm not wrong. Nevertheless, the operation was carried out without asking the community about it first, which obviously resulted in several complaints. Following this, a vote was held, where the majority of the users still believed Von Linden's ban shouldn't have been revoked in any way. Now, I can understand Sebastiano has claimed the community pardoned him for his past actions as Dresner, and I somehow did too, but if the majority of the community still votes if favour of your ban, then something must be wrong with your data.
It was also said that people were "brainwashed" by the three names mentioned. However, if I can say, another term must be used. People are actually "fed up".
Every single time Von Linden's personas were found out to be fictional characters, the community divided itself in two parts, a bit like O.J Simpson's trial , arguing on who is right and who's wrong. Young members were afraid of a sudden collapse of the community while the old ones (including, unfortunately, me) had the *great* task to try and find a solution to the huge number of pointless arguments. It usually ended up with Von Linden's persona being banned for trying to evade the previous ban, etc. etc. This took place for the fourth time in the last days, and some of us just want to talk about other things. Philip described the situation better than anyone else, actually, whenever you agree with him or not.
Therefore, while the ban might have not been carried out in a fantastic way, the majority of the community decided that we just can't have this situation every four/five months. It just makes you want to leave micronationalism as it becomes a perennial quarrel. Anyway, even if a good number of micronationalists are opposed to the ban of Anthony of Zealandia, who still supports Von Linden albeit an investigation on Sebastian being carried out by the authorities of Zealandia, most of the users are still in favour of keeping Sebastiano out of the forum, in order not to have other arguments, more or less. Needless to say that those who still want to talk to him can do so through Skype, so yeah, Fish is not really that much of a dictator after all.
tl;dr Von Linden was banned because people just can't stand him anymore.
Alexander Reinhardt OBS
President of the St.Charlian Parliament
Former Prime Minister of St.Charlie (2009 - 2011)
President of the St.Charlian Parliament
Former Prime Minister of St.Charlie (2009 - 2011)
Re: An Announcement
And I thought I had a tendency to Wall of Text. I really gotta work on my game here.
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Re: An Announcement
Ah yes, and he is more reliable than me because........Einhorn wrote:But I think the best thing we can do here on the hub is wash our hands of this incident and pat ourselves on our backs for waiting for Mr. Fish to come here and explain things rather than lose our cool.
But I shall not argue with you because of the sheer awesomeness of your avatar. Patrick Stewart just cannot be argued with. Nevertheless, a video response to Fish's ridiculous falsehoods shall be posted shortly.
Re: An Announcement
Does it have to be a video? It would be so much nicer to people you're actually trying to get across to if you just let them spend a minute reading a forum post rather than try to make them listen to a video for however long it'll take...
Jesa habe Ljo kju Ljo toka par tokajj Ljo kju De habe!
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Re: An Announcement
Half an hour, actually, I'm sorry. You can stop listening once I start going on about how I'll stand for my principles et al
But it'll have to do, I'm ill, so I'm not good at typing atm
The video is, or will after processing be, located here:
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=T60N5NY5
But it'll have to do, I'm ill, so I'm not good at typing atm
The video is, or will after processing be, located here:
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=T60N5NY5
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- Posts: 47
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Re: An Announcement
And megavideo decided to quit on me, so I'll be uploading the wmv somewhere soon.
Or, by the time I can get that done, I'll probably have a chance to transcribe it.
Or, by the time I can get that done, I'll probably have a chance to transcribe it.
Re: An Announcement
Or perhaps this is a chance to drop the issue entirely and take advantage of this semi-clean slate HUB.mn is giving you. If you behave the vast majority of us are willing to just go about our business and will be happy to have you around. Start anew and take the MicroWiki past as a lesson on what not to do.
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
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- Guido Zambelis
- Posts: 2854
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Re: An Announcement
We've heard both sides of the story, and I don't think any more really needs to be said that is going to go anywhere constructively. You are essentially forum shopping, and we don't need it.
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Re: An Announcement
Indeed. All he's done is follow me over here to Micras to continue harassing me. Someone should lock this thread
Re: An Announcement
I am slowly losing faith in this hobby, providing I haven't lost it already and am just in denial.
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
- Austenasia
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Re: An Announcement
I wouldn't say that, granted I've found your argument annoying (and it is against the official viewpoint of the Austenasian Govenment) but I see your point and I wouldn't say that I have a "personal vendetta" against you!Philip Fish wrote:I'm sure you can see from Jonathan's posts, he's anything but impartial. Jonathan, in fact, has something of a personal vendetta against me. Many times in the past I've had to point out to him that his micronation, Austenasia, is not a "sovereign nation" as he has claimed many times in the past. This hasn't exactly endeared me to him.
I am merely interested in seeing this case finally be resolved with an outcome that is acceptable to all, and I find it suspicious how Prince Sebastian has been accused of these actions against MicroWiki itself (DDoS attack and accessing the Control Panel etc) with no evidence, or at least none that I - and I presume few of those who voted for the ban - have seen. If I can be shown proof that he committed these "crimes", then I will gladly drop this issue, but without proof of these attacks then his lifetime ban merely comes from a couple of privacy violations and "being annoying" - and I do not see that as justice.