An Announcement

[Andreas the Wise]

The ONLY person you can appeal to is Fish, not us.

Sorry to correct you, but having been following the overal lincident slightly more (though only skimming this thread) I'm pretty sure you mean "The ONLY person you can appeal to is the admin (which includes Fish), not us." I'm pretty sure it's an important point that it wasn't just Fish who did the ban, but a decision of all the admin.

[Nick]

I flipped the TV over to BBC for a second just to see what the hell it is all about. Sounds like an attempt to sound very official/sophisticated, something one would do IC. That or some form of preparatory school* is involved somewhere. Well, in 10 years Mr, von Linden can seek a job as a BBC newscaster.

*American prep schools are known for their posh and arrogant attitudes. Don't know if this applies to the UK, but I figured the concept originated from somewhere so....

@Andreas - Fish seems to be the top dog, which is why I only mentioned his name. Either way it is entirely inconsequential as I doubt an appeal written by Johnny Cochran and Peter John together will reverse the ban.

[Guido Zambelis]

The ONLY person you can appeal to is Fish, not us.

Sorry to correct you, but having been following the overal lincident slightly more (though only skimming this thread) I'm pretty sure you mean "The ONLY person you can appeal to is the admin (which includes Fish), not us." I'm pretty sure it's an important point that it wasn't just Fish who did the ban, but a decision of all the admin.

Andreas, I believe it's possible that you might have accidentally committed the cardinal sin of getting involved...

[Andreas the Wise]

Fair enough. I'll try to salvage my reputation by suggesting once again that we lock this thread

[Brian Barry]

[William Danforth]

The ONLY person you can appeal to is Fish, not us.

Sorry to correct you, but having been following the overal lincident slightly more (though only skimming this thread) I'm pretty sure you mean "The ONLY person you can appeal to is the admin (which includes Fish), not us." I'm pretty sure it's an important point that it wasn't just Fish who did the ban, but a decision of all the admin.

Actually, some admins protested.

[aldrich_lucas]

The ONLY person you can appeal to is Fish, not us.

Sorry to correct you, but having been following the overal lincident slightly more (though only skimming this thread) I'm pretty sure you mean "The ONLY person you can appeal to is the admin (which includes Fish), not us." I'm pretty sure it's an important point that it wasn't just Fish who did the ban, but a decision of all the admin.

Actually, some admins protested.

Correction, no admins protested. Philip Fish was in support of your ban. Peter Bralesford was in support of your ban. I was in support of your ban. Alexander Reinardhart was neutral towards it and wished to follow the community's decision. No admin protested, especially not multiple ones.

As to Fish being top dog, if anything, it's probably Alexander Reinhardt, he's been around the longest, both within the community and as an admin (for the latter, twice as long as anyone else). Just for the sake of correction. And, still downloading the video, though I doubt I'll bother watching most of it (really, half an hour is quite a long time). And fortunately, no, most people don't bother with half hour long videos. Max is maybe ten, fifteen minutes of talking for those who bother with videos or audio, the rest just do with written rants.

Notes on the video.
1:30 - "nobody objected to the idea of me being pardoned". Pick me! Pick me! I objected, you acknowledged that in an earlier video.
3:00 - "weird Skype lie detector". Wtf, who cares?
3:30 - *gets bored and closes the video*

Summary pl0x.

[SaiKar]

Yeah, when in Micras, do as the Micronians do. We don't do videos - we write long, somewhat regrettable rants.

[Parker I]

Hi, I'm Parker I.

So, I've been on the von Linden case for a while, and I've decided to make a stance.

I wouldn't go so far to call Fish and the other admins terrorists, but they are (not all of them) somewhat irresponsible in their actions under admins. It's hard for me to oppose them, because I like them as people. But I must, because I believe they are not correctly leading the community I am in.

Moving on to the more pressing topic, the bans of von Linden and Anthony, I helped a movement establish that got the ban of King Anthony removed. His access to the wiki and it's forum have been restored completely. Keep in mind, however, that this referendum on the ban of Anthony did not come about until after we protested for a few days, and the admins tried to resist us. The only notable exception to this case is Alexander Reinhardt of St. Charlie.

Now lets have a look at what is also going on. Recently, I started an investigation onto the ban of von Linden, investigating the actual reason for the ban. These were the reasons that the admins continued to repeat:

1. He's a troll.
2. He hacked microwiki and preformed a DDoS attack
3. He said Fish's real name (previously released to the public by Fish, but redacted) on the OAM message boards, and then on Youtube. Fish censored the OAM message boards and von Linden removed the video after Fish asked him to.

I began my investigation on number two, many (including von Linden himself) were criticizing the evidence on that. I started a forum topic for discussion. After deliberation we decided the evidence was not only conclusive, but was not even incriminating! The admins only knew that the attack was perpetrated. They knew it was from a northern Europe proxy server, but anyone can get a proxy in Northern Europe. Thus #2 was dismissed.

I moved my investigation onto #3. When I started a topic for discussion, Neils I of Flandrensis (A micronation from Belgium, well established in MicroWiki) criticized my "obsession" (I think he called it that) about von Linden. He said I should stop. Now, I have no problem with that, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But then Peter Bralesford of Egtavia (with whom I am somewhat of a good acquaintance, after playing minecraft with him over the past week), locked my topic, saying I should stop the investigation. I requested that the topic be re-opened. He replied without even attempting negotiations, a simple "No." (That was his full post). I started a new topic. He locked it as well. So thus, I cannot get a discussion going on that topic, I cannot investigate the opinions of the various people in the community! He is censoring open discussion on the forums!

I mean come on!

I have lost my trust, whatever was left, in the admins, von Linden, you have my support.

[Nick]

This topic isn't locked yet?

People still care about this?

I HAD NO IDEA!

[SaiKar]

They post here in between attempts to ban us all from their organizations by declaring us not even micronationalists. Enmity is growing.

[Nick]

I'm not surprised really, because MICRONATIONS R SRS BSNS!

What a dick....

Although on a positive note it seems we have more than a few advocates. I find it funny how they expect to be treated like legitimate sovereigns and be recognized by the world, with their only claim to "land" being their back yard and yet they call US delusional for simply deciding to pursue a more (probably more realistically feasible) fictional route to micronationalism.

If anything, they're the ones who cannot be taken seriously, if you ask me. We've all spent years and years doing what they wish they could do with their back yards and construction paper crowns , albeit on forums, we've still "done it".

[Überstadt]

But how are you micronationalists if you don't even claim actual physical territory? And some of us do a lot more than sit in our backyards with paper crowns. I, for example, am the leader of a functioning direct democracy that has laid claim to land that we will actually have to do something to maintain control over.

This is not to say Micras is inferior to territorial micronationalism. I think that both have equal numbers of advantages and drawbacks. Quite honestly, I think this squabbling is ridiculous.

[SaiKar]

But how are you micronationalists if you don't even claim actual physical territory?

Since joining this hobby, I have moved residence close to a dozen times. I've lived in three different states in the past year or so, thousands of miles apart, THIS YEAR ALONE. Claiming my backyard? Which one, and why bother when I'll move on sooner or later anyway? Are no members of Microwiki struggling to confront these issues, or are they all planning on living in their parent's house all their life?

[Andreas the Wise]

If you'd like to understand the perspective of many Micras nations about why we consider ourselves micronations, read all of this thread. Not just the first page, the whole topic.