A poll on the subject of the Gloria Mundi map

[Shyriath]

So, some of you might be aware of the Gloria Mundi map, which has been my long-running attempt to prettify the MCS claimsmap. For those of you who are not aware of it or don't care, feel free to ignore this as you like. Those of you who know of it, though, may have recognized a certain discrepancy between it and the claimsmap.

On the continent of Keltia - the big one toward the upper right - there is a river that, on the claimsmap, cuts through the entire continent, from Blore Heath at the south end to Jangsong in the north. When I revived Gloria Mundi after a period of dormancy, I made the decision not to follow this in the name of geographic reality; rivers, by and large, do not behave like that, and in my soul I felt uneasy about portraying one as doing so. So I split the river in two in what seemed to be a vaguely topographically realistic fashion, despite the break this made with the claimsmap.

Up till now this policy has not caused particular complaint. Nonetheless, recently someone pointed out the inconsistency to me and drove home that point that, for a nation that bordered the river cared and how it looked on both maps, the situation could cause some difficulties. So I would like to get an idea of what people think about the situation, if they have an opinion at all. I've included the obvious this-or-that options (plus one possible compromise option I'd considered once upon a time) and I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Senya]

As a Geography student, I do share your concern that rivers don't behave like that.

That said, I think it's important for it to be the same as the claimsmap, and as such I'd have to support it being the same. After all, if a nation has put a boundary in the river, it could be seen as unfair to then remove the river.

However at the same time, it could also be explained with the course of the river being a tectonic plate boundary, with either side slowly moving away from each other. This could easily cause a river between the two...

[Orion]

I posted this on Bastion, but I'll post it here as well, as I agree with Barnaby:

In the past I've been asked about all the rivers, because they are all abnormally wide. For most rivers the simple answer I provided was that the rivers had exaggerated widths due to the map projection.

The river on Keltia, however, is trickier, because it bisects the continent. One excuse that could make some plausible sense is that it's an aborted plate fracture. The plate broke, started to separate, and then stopped, leaving a banded fracture valley that eventually filled with water. The Connecticut River Valley was formed through the same process. The only real issue with this is it would more likely be saline than fresh water.

[Rook]

I always considered it a narrow sea, except when the conversation about how it's a silly looking river comes up now and again. As was quoted to Orion, by virtue of the fact that you can't make anything less than one pixel wide on the claims map, and every pixel representing 12 km, all but the widest rivers on earth wouldn't show up on our claims map. Heck, though it's wide enough to be worth a few pixels in the rainy season, even the Amazon river is narrower than 12 km at certain points along its length, and over its majority in some dry seasons. I always assumed that there were a multitude of rivers on Micras too small to be drawn, and that representing them is the job of people drawing "zoomed in" maps of their territories.

So calling it a river is nonsense, because rivers really don't act that way. However, I do like the idea of preserving that unique geographical feature, I mean not every river everywhere follows all the rules; think of the Nile flowing the 'wrong' way. I like the idea of it being a long narrow sea because that's what I've always thought of it as, being saline and not fresh water, and the explanation of aborted tectonic movement, or active tectonic movement that would be recorded in millimeters per decade (and thus negligible in human lifespans) are all ones that sit comfortably with me. However, unless that's explained somehow or somewhere, we will always and forever deal with new people eventually noticing that the 'river' on Keltia is topographically 'wrong' and bring up the subject of 'fixing' it only to be told by the veteran population that it's supposed to be that way. The question is, is having a unique (but otherwise unexplained and not immediately apparent) geographical feature worth the social maintenance of eventually having to have the "Yes, we know it's too big to be a river" conversation periodically for the foreseeable future? I think it's fine, but it may irritate others. That's the only reason I'd consider changing the river on the claims map to something more topographically appropriate as represented on the Gloria Mundi map.

If we are already considering the idea of permanently changing the geography of the claims map but we are also sticking with the idea of a narrow sea, and we don't want to deal with people talking about the big river being wrong in perpetuity, we could just widen it enough that no one would reasonably assume it was a river. To show what I mean I made a quick and sloppy example:

http://photos.uantir.com/GalleryFilmstr ... oto&ci=008

[Edgard]

I posted this on Bastion, but I'll post it here as well, as I agree with Barnaby:

In the past I've been asked about all the rivers, because they are all abnormally wide. For most rivers the simple answer I provided was that the rivers had exaggerated widths due to the map projection.

The river on Keltia, however, is trickier, because it bisects the continent. One excuse that could make some plausible sense is that it's an aborted plate fracture. The plate broke, started to separate, and then stopped, leaving a banded fracture valley that eventually filled with water. The Connecticut River Valley was formed through the same process. The only real issue with this is it would more likely be saline than fresh water.

This. I always thought it was a narrow sea instead of a river. I didn't have a specific start or end like usual rivers do...

[Senya]

I always assumed that there were a multitude of rivers on Micras too small to be drawn, and that representing them is the job of people drawing "zoomed in" maps of their territories.

Also this, because on a world map, small local rivers aren't mapped (even if they are important, such as the River Thames)...

[Shyriath]

It seems the "narrow sea" theory has by far the most support, then. I'll let this run till Friday evening, but assuming the overall result is the same, I'll change Gloria Mundi to reflect it.

[Rook]

I always assumed that there were a multitude of rivers on Micras too small to be drawn, and that representing them is the job of people drawing "zoomed in" maps of their territories.

Also this, because on a world map, small local rivers aren't mapped (even if they are important, such as the River Thames)...

Exactly. Something important to a region like a River Thames analogue would be the job of the nation's cultural development, not that of Micras designers or the MCS.

[Fürst Holonar I]

How wide is it on the most narrow spot? It should be possible to build bridges there.

Otherwise I find the "narrow sea" as the best proposal.
However must the east of Keltia then be considered as an island.

[Senya]

However must the east of Keltia then be considered as an island.

Technically yes, however it'd be treated as part of Keltia much like Java is considered Asian and Great Britain is considered European

[Rasmus]

Technically yes, however it'd be treated as part of Keltia much like Java is considered Asian and Great Britain is considered European

When did the Inselaffen suddenly decide they're European after all? They're American until the moment they finally accept Angela Merkel as their only lord and savior.

[Orion]

Technically yes, however it'd be treated as part of Keltia much like Java is considered Asian and Great Britain is considered European

When did the Inselaffen suddenly decide they're European after all? They're American until the moment they finally accept Angela Merkel as their only lord and savior.

You mean like you've accepted the Merkelssiah?

[Edgard]

I've accepted the Merkelssiah into my heart.

[Craitman]

When did the Inselaffen suddenly decide they're European after all?

That's the problem - we know it's true, we just can't come to terms with it!

[Shyriath]

The poll, by a wide margin, still being in favor of the body of water in question being depicted as sea, I have now made that change to my working files; all future versions of Gloria Mundi will show it that way.

Mind you, I think it looks ridiculous, but it's less ridiculous than a river, so I can live with it.