Complaints/Judicial Appeals
- Lord_Montague
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Complaints/Judicial Appeals
For the sake of convenience in allowing people to be on a level playing field when appealing for judicial review over actions as well as in archiving decisions for the Annunia Convention Common Law I'd like to ask you all to follow the procedure set out below when you want a Judge's decision on an something:
1. Create a new thread in Battleground with your name vs the name of the person who made the move.
2. Set up your case in the following way:
1. Create a new thread in Battleground with your name vs the name of the person who made the move.
2. Set up your case in the following way:
3. Allow the defendant to explain their actions. Debate can then continue for however long until the judge makes his decision.Case Name: (name of complainant) vs (name of person being complained about/micronational being complained about)
Case Brief: (Brief Description of why you feel the rules have been broken.)
Evidence: (The offending post(s))
In Battle; Unbeatable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
Ohgood I hate people complaining in the battle thread.
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A Judicial Query
About the nature of reality in this recwar.
Extreme has gone and attempted to appropriate a large amount of Tokian technology.
What my question is about is the nature of reality. See, we Tokians/Novans generally have the problem with war-reality that our micronational reality and the realisitic reality of our opponents don't correlate one-to-one. So we tend to, for their benefit, act as if parts of our reality don't exist. For example, we don't generally have our civilians respond with magic. Of course, by assumption our opponents also should act as if those parts of our reality don't exist, because in their reality, it doesn't.
Which brings us to the matter of CAA tech. The Tokians know much better about the details of whether all such tech would be in one place etc, but, as several have pointed out to me, much of that tech falls under the structure of "Tokian/Novatainian reality". I know for a fact some of that involves Durium, which isn't allowed in normal recwar. Most of it pushes the boundaries of "allowable technology" also. My point is, if we're going with standard recwarring ... most of that shouldn't exist.
Extreme's acting as if it does exist. Well, in that version of reality, Toketi is far from undefended - there are all the CITRA units. There are also mages, montags; and North's Shadow Legion in Damev. Really, if he's going into that sort of reality, the Tokians should be able to defend against it with that sort of reality. Especially if he's talking about working models of them, he's admitting in his very post that the technology exists in his version of war reality. That means that the guards should also resist and put up significant defence.
Summary: Are we in Toketian/Novatainian reality, or International-War-Reality? Because if we're in International War-Reality, most of those units shouldn't exist. And if we're in Toketian/Novatainian reality, there should be significant defence. So which is it, judges?
Extreme has gone and attempted to appropriate a large amount of Tokian technology.
What my question is about is the nature of reality. See, we Tokians/Novans generally have the problem with war-reality that our micronational reality and the realisitic reality of our opponents don't correlate one-to-one. So we tend to, for their benefit, act as if parts of our reality don't exist. For example, we don't generally have our civilians respond with magic. Of course, by assumption our opponents also should act as if those parts of our reality don't exist, because in their reality, it doesn't.
Which brings us to the matter of CAA tech. The Tokians know much better about the details of whether all such tech would be in one place etc, but, as several have pointed out to me, much of that tech falls under the structure of "Tokian/Novatainian reality". I know for a fact some of that involves Durium, which isn't allowed in normal recwar. Most of it pushes the boundaries of "allowable technology" also. My point is, if we're going with standard recwarring ... most of that shouldn't exist.
Extreme's acting as if it does exist. Well, in that version of reality, Toketi is far from undefended - there are all the CITRA units. There are also mages, montags; and North's Shadow Legion in Damev. Really, if he's going into that sort of reality, the Tokians should be able to defend against it with that sort of reality. Especially if he's talking about working models of them, he's admitting in his very post that the technology exists in his version of war reality. That means that the guards should also resist and put up significant defence.
Summary: Are we in Toketian/Novatainian reality, or International-War-Reality? Because if we're in International War-Reality, most of those units shouldn't exist. And if we're in Toketian/Novatainian reality, there should be significant defence. So which is it, judges?
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
Andreas- I can answer that for you.
In his initial OrBat, Prodigy posted that he was using CBSs, or Chelkran Battle Suits (some of the technology that Extreme is attempting to steal). The judges ruled that the technology was too advanced, and therefore fell into the tokian/novan reality. Prodigy was not allowed to use the CBSs.
Looking at this, we're in micras reality. which means that extreme is trying to steal tech that does not exist.
In his initial OrBat, Prodigy posted that he was using CBSs, or Chelkran Battle Suits (some of the technology that Extreme is attempting to steal). The judges ruled that the technology was too advanced, and therefore fell into the tokian/novan reality. Prodigy was not allowed to use the CBSs.
Looking at this, we're in micras reality. which means that extreme is trying to steal tech that does not exist.
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
SO basically extreme had a good idea but it's totally unfeasible
Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
I have an unrelated question for the judges.
Who speaks for cities that have no military forces within or nearby? Say if a military force threatens an enemy city with destruction unless they surrender, who can control the city to say that they do or do not surrender? And what happens if nobody does so? Can the threatening force just speak for the city and say they surrender without a fight, essentially 24-houring them?
Who speaks for cities that have no military forces within or nearby? Say if a military force threatens an enemy city with destruction unless they surrender, who can control the city to say that they do or do not surrender? And what happens if nobody does so? Can the threatening force just speak for the city and say they surrender without a fight, essentially 24-houring them?
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
Well.. think of it this way, whatever units that you have (that are eligible in this war) are being stolen. I just looked at one of your orbat and put in everything that i had no idea/knowledge about and considered it Gralus (Novatania + Tokinia?) built (in that no other nation builds similar units).
So, basically anything that's eligible and being used by Gralus, is being taken.
and yes, any participant citizen of that nation can respond to such an attack. so, you can respond, or someone else who's participating in this war and belongs to your nation (however, that person should be representing your nation in this war). If i were to strike shireroth, scott could reply. But Andreas cannot, even though he's a citizen of Shireroth. Because he's in this war as a novatanian.
So, basically anything that's eligible and being used by Gralus, is being taken.
and yes, any participant citizen of that nation can respond to such an attack. so, you can respond, or someone else who's participating in this war and belongs to your nation (however, that person should be representing your nation in this war). If i were to strike shireroth, scott could reply. But Andreas cannot, even though he's a citizen of Shireroth. Because he's in this war as a novatanian.
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
Firstly, dick move. We're not even fighting NEAR Toketi. We're in Jasonia.
Second, NONE - absolutely NONE - of that tech is kept in Furfein Tosha conMakain, except maybe a few MPR-07s which would be in the hands of North's military, none of whom may I point out are currently there. That is North's territory, not the territory of the CAA. I'm obviously not going to tell you were it IS kept, but none of those items you mentioned were kept in Furfein.
Thirdly, this is a good point Andreas brings up. The judges ruled out Longbows, CBSs, and Drop Cubes. I don't think they would allow you to steal those if I - the person who developed them - am not allowed to use them.
Second, NONE - absolutely NONE - of that tech is kept in Furfein Tosha conMakain, except maybe a few MPR-07s which would be in the hands of North's military, none of whom may I point out are currently there. That is North's territory, not the territory of the CAA. I'm obviously not going to tell you were it IS kept, but none of those items you mentioned were kept in Furfein.
Thirdly, this is a good point Andreas brings up. The judges ruled out Longbows, CBSs, and Drop Cubes. I don't think they would allow you to steal those if I - the person who developed them - am not allowed to use them.
Prodigy Almighty, Executor of Chelkran Kesh
Baron of Absentia, Count of Western Absentia
"Denken ist schwer, darum urteilen die Meisten." - Carl Jung
Baron of Absentia, Count of Western Absentia
"Denken ist schwer, darum urteilen die Meisten." - Carl Jung
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
Sorry to the judges ... my initial post was meant to be a separate topic. Oh well.
Now, back on that topic - The Tokians have sorted out what he's legally able to get. That it was a lot less than he posted is irrelevant. It's the principle of the attack that matters. There will be a reckoning, and boy will it be fun.
Combat Units > Non-combat units, obviously. However, what Extreme has stolen is non-orbatted, therefore non-combat. "Fighting" non-orbatted units with other non-orbatted units is valid, correct? (For precedent, when soldiers "re-educate" citizens, people from the nation have played other civilians resisting that effect). It's pure backstory ... but still valid, yes?
Now, back on that topic - The Tokians have sorted out what he's legally able to get. That it was a lot less than he posted is irrelevant. It's the principle of the attack that matters. There will be a reckoning, and boy will it be fun.
Combat Units > Non-combat units, obviously. However, what Extreme has stolen is non-orbatted, therefore non-combat. "Fighting" non-orbatted units with other non-orbatted units is valid, correct? (For precedent, when soldiers "re-educate" citizens, people from the nation have played other civilians resisting that effect). It's pure backstory ... but still valid, yes?
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
i am confused on what you are trying to say. but if you mean that i am going to use these stolen units to fight other units in this war, then no.. that's not happening. if you mean that i am going to use these stolen units to fight other units in some other future war, then no, that's not happening either. if that were possible, i'd be fighting you guys with the Ragnorak for instance, even though to this day i have no idea what the Ragnorak was capable of doing!
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
What were trying to say is, you obviously did this for something. Since you wouldn't be able to add new units this war, you must be getting the plans to try and understand how they work and how to destroy them more easily.
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
No. I'm arguing that since what you've stolen is non-combat units, non-combat units should be able to recover them. Under the allowable reality of the war and all that.extreme007 wrote:i am confused on what you are trying to say. but if you mean that i am going to use these stolen units to fight other units in this war, then no.. that's not happening. if you mean that i am going to use these stolen units to fight other units in some other future war, then no, that's not happening either. if that were possible, i'd be fighting you guys with the Ragnorak for instance, even though to this day i have no idea what the Ragnorak was capable of doing!
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
- Lord_Montague
- Posts: 913
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
Can we have this outside the thread? This thread was only supposed provide you with a template for putting forward a judicial appeal or complaint, to which none of you have done despite this argument falling quite clearly into that catagory.
In Battle; Unbeatable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
As I said in the post above, I thought I'd clicked "new topic" but I hadn't. I was waiting for you to split it off ...
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
- Scott Alexander
- Special Map Cartographer
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Re: Complaints/Judicial Appeals
Request quick ruling by people current on modern military technology whether surface-to-surface heat seeking projectile exists that can hit piece of construction equipment (such as bulldozer) from a range of 30 km using vague knowledge of the general area in which equipment should be located.
(Andreas, I'm assuming that when you said you were targeting based on Nick's flyby, you meant the bombing run of three days ago. If so, there would be only vague knowledge of the layout of the trench, since the trench was not being dug three days ago. I was under impression that helicopters were only patrolling the borders of Provos Island and not surveying the interior.)
(Andreas, I'm assuming that when you said you were targeting based on Nick's flyby, you meant the bombing run of three days ago. If so, there would be only vague knowledge of the layout of the trench, since the trench was not being dug three days ago. I was under impression that helicopters were only patrolling the borders of Provos Island and not surveying the interior.)
Scott Alexander | Autokrator of Archipelago (What is Archipelago?)
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer