Longbow of Toketi
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
Either way- IT DOESNT MATTER FOR THIS WAR. RELAX.
After seeing how much "discussion" this has brought up the first time, I'm not likely to attempt it a second time.
discuss how to do it when you're modding the charter.
After seeing how much "discussion" this has brought up the first time, I'm not likely to attempt it a second time.
discuss how to do it when you're modding the charter.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
A few things:-Courtesy of Andreas' loan of a ship, The Scalziin sail an intercept course for Extreme's surface fleet (seeing as it is en route to the islands). -Well out of range, the troops jump ship, and the ship sails out of range.
-Once Extreme's ships (or any subs reasonably near to the surface) approach, they all slip underwater, and swim towards the ships mimicking a pod of sharks (to confuse sonar, if the sonar can even pick them up. They're people-sized swimmers for god's sake.)
--To match the ship's speed, a special suit is used (pm'd to judges), as well as precise timing (calculated on the ship), and (if needed) they can use some pressurized gas in the air tanks to increase speed (underwater jetpack, McGiver style).
-Once the ships pass overhead, they swim up and stick thermite, C4, and other high explosives to this ships. If need be, they can use magnetics to cling to the ships' hulls, and then climb up a short distance.
-Once all the charges are planted, they sink back down to a safe depth, then press the big red button.
-If any sailors, troops, people attempt to escape the sinking ships via the water, the Scalziin use harpoon guns to eliminate them.
1. I am stuck in my battle with Demon. My ships are still near Toketi with almost 18 submarines in the middle, belonging to Demon of North.
2. If you do send this ship towards my ships near Toketi, they wont be able to get there in time, before this war is over. Because the in-game time near Toketi is going at a much slower pace than the in-game time at Jasonia. So, while under normal circumstances you could move to Toketi within two to three days, in-game, it will take a lot lot longer,... and quite frankly i doubt the war would last that long.. unless off course Demon loses his submarines, or he takes out my ships, or we both call it a draw and go our separate ways.
3. How are you going to find my ships in the open sea? I could be heading East first, then South directly to Jasonia, or I could be heading South first to Cibola then East towards Jasonia, or make a straight path for Jasonia! One ship trying to find a fleet ? Doubt that would be possible.
4. How you gonna know if a ship is mine or someone else's ?
5. I don't think what you are trying to do is plausible, but what the hell.. the war's about to be over anyway. So, I'll give in to that move.
So, all in all, just wait I suppose for my ships to get there....
-
- Posts: 5024
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: Novatainia
- Contact:
Re: Longbow of Toketi
Obviously, with the time thing, Longbow's forces either come in when they would catch up to you after you left after finishing the battle (assuming you survive - you've got far more points of subs than your fleet), or they'd catch up to you mid fight if it lasts a long, long time. Yeah, time gets a little odd, but that shouldn't make you immune to others combatting you. This is micronationalism, after all
(and North would tell him where your ships are).
(and North would tell him where your ships are).
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
1: Your subs are. As far as everything else is concerned, your troops continued to move towards their goal, with unknown numbers (seeing as you and north are still debating). You two didn't just stop there for a week, spend a day battling, then move on. The problem with using moves while debating an attack is that you don't know how many troops you have to move with, so most people don't do it.extreme007 wrote:A few things:
1. I am stuck in my battle with Demon. My ships are still near Toketi with almost 18 submarines in the middle, belonging to Demon of North.
2. If you do send this ship towards my ships near Toketi, they wont be able to get there in time, before this war is over. Because the in-game time near Toketi is going at a much slower pace than the in-game time at Jasonia. So, while under normal circumstances you could move to Toketi within two to three days, in-game, it will take a lot lot longer,... and quite frankly i doubt the war would last that long.. unless off course Demon loses his submarines, or he takes out my ships, or we both call it a draw and go our separate ways.
3. How are you going to find my ships in the open sea? I could be heading East first, then South directly to Jasonia, or I could be heading South first to Cibola then East towards Jasonia, or make a straight path for Jasonia! One ship trying to find a fleet ? Doubt that would be possible.
4. How you gonna know if a ship is mine or someone else's ?
5. I don't think what you are trying to do is plausible, but what the hell.. the war's about to be over anyway. So, I'll give in to that move.
Problem B: If your fleet has been doing nothing but sitting where you're fighting North for the past week, point #2 is moot.
2A:
Public move, I know where you're going. That's the point of it being a PUBLIC MOVE.extreme007 wrote:surface fleet was near Toketi wars, just beginning to head south.
2B: I'm moving towards you while you're moving towards me. That cuts the required time in half. And this wasn't a done-in-a-day move. 3 days of constant sailing. And if things are moving slowly in Toketi it's for one of 2 reasons:
1: someone cast a time stop spell (didn't happen for blatently obvious reasons)
2: you're moving a lot slower than you logically should be. If you're moving back to the battlefield, as you said you were, you would be moving with all haste to get back to monty and company to help them.
3: You told me. If you had said "Classified, secret move", then i wouldn't know. But you told me. Public move = People know where you are.
4: A) Because nobody else just spent weeks blowing up toketi. B) The only other people on my side who have ships are in the logical place to be: The war zone.
5: Sorry for trying to do something brand new to international warfare. Sorry I'm not wasting the entire war blowing up civilians. Sorry I'm trying to DO SOMETHING other than "I shoot you. I ambush you. I bomb you. I shoot missiles at civilians. ETC." It's a legitimate tactic, but none of y'all had thought of it, or found tech that could make it possible.
6: Why does it seem like I'm the only person in this war who is trying to do something out of the ordinary? That's twice now I've done an intermicronational wartime first.
-
- Posts: 5024
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: Novatainia
- Contact:
Re: Longbow of Toketi
Longbow, he conceded 5 ....
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
regardless. i was moderately pissed and needed to rant.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
No, my two submarines are currently engaged in fighting Demon.1: Your subs are. As far as everything else is concerned, your troops continued to move towards their goal, with unknown numbers (seeing as you and north are still debating). You two didn't just stop there for a week, spend a day battling, then move on. The problem with using moves while debating an attack is that you don't know how many troops you have to move with, so most people don't do it.
Problem B: If your fleet has been doing nothing but sitting where you're fighting North for the past week, point #2 is moot.
The ground troops and aircrafts, are all on the carrier.
The carrier and the remaining surface fleet were headed towards Jasonia, but are currently caught up in the battle with Demon's units. So, they haven't continued on their journey towards Jasonia.
Yes, you know where I am heading to. But you don't know what direction I am taking! I said that I was heading South towards Babkha, to rearm, and then the plan was to head towards Jasonia. Is that going East from Babkha towards Jasonia? or going west ? you dont know... and I do.. and I already told the judges my route (but that has to be put on hold, since Demon attacked me afterward).Public move, I know where you're going. That's the point of it being a PUBLIC MOVE.
2B: I'm moving towards you while you're moving towards me. That cuts the required time in half. And this wasn't a done-in-a-day move. 3 days of constant sailing. And if things are moving slowly in Toketi it's for one of 2 reasons:
1: someone cast a time stop spell (didn't happen for blatently obvious reasons)
2: you're moving a lot slower than you logically should be. If you're moving back to the battlefield, as you said you were, you would be moving with all haste to get back to monty and company to help them.
Regarding the 3 days of constant sailing, I hope you had sent that move to the judges.
No, the time is moving slowly in/around Toketi is because our war post actions are being done in minutes. No one is posting around Jasonia, and thus, the time there could be spent in days or hours or whatever the players there decide. So, it could be the 10th of April near Jasonia, whereas 5th of April near Toketi where me and Demon are duking it out.
Hell, demon's just having problems with my aircrafts getting to the battle so quickly, do you really expect him to allow me to drop depth charges on him from my destroyers? likewise, i wont allow your units to get to me so quickly (unless if you had sent the secret move to judges at the same time as Demon had).
Public move does not mean people know where the other guy is. Public move means that you are aware of what the other person is doing, but don't know exactly where they are, unless they explicitly say where they are. For instance, right now, all you know is that my surface fleet is near Toketi. Let's say Demon's ships aren't there, and I am able to move freely in-game time. A day from now, where do you think my ships are? Draw a radius of 500 pixels from say Port of Sails. I could be anywhere on that radius line. And since you got one ship, there's no way for you to know where I am. If you are lucky, we might run into each other. If after a day, I say I am near Paribia, Novatainia, then you know I am there and not somewhere else.3: You told me. If you had said "Classified, secret move", then i wouldn't know. But you told me. Public move = People know where you are.
Also, while public move means that you are aware of my unit's intentions, or where they are, your commanders by no means know that. In the above example, if I post saying I am going to Paribia, and you post later saying your ships move to Paribia to surprise attack me, that's called God-modding. Because your characters would have not known that I was moving to Paribia.
Since I already brought this point up, do inform me as to how your commanders and ship-captains know that my fleet is headed south? not just south, but towards Jasonia!
You do realize the silliness of your actions? It could work against ships at port or going slow, but those traveling at 20 knots, some 20 kilometers or so far from your ship ? Hell, once your ship is detected, I could fire a dozen missiles at it, sink it and then continue on.. your guys would not know where my ships are! and if they suddenly even had radar and sonar on this small people-sized swimmers (big and powerful enough like the ones on a ship), they wouldn't have the power/speed/endurance to make that 20 kilometers! That's assuming that I am not headed at you directly. And no ships travel in a straight line, especially in a carrier battle group. They criss-cross the oceans as they sail from one point to another. But moving on, not to mention, that they are already carrying quite a significant weight on them (the mines/bombs that you are going to use!). Also, once the ship goes over them, the swimmers of yours are gonna get sucked into the propellors/engines and killed instantly.5: Sorry for trying to do something brand new to international warfare. Sorry I'm not wasting the entire war blowing up civilians. Sorry I'm trying to DO SOMETHING other than "I shoot you. I ambush you. I bomb you. I shoot missiles at civilians. ETC." It's a legitimate tactic, but none of y'all had thought of it, or found tech that could make it possible.
But no worries, I am up for you trying to pull a move like that, just cause I am bored and didn't face any fight in Jasonia. But I am just curious as to how your swimmers are going to jump into water? Do they go into the waters when the first sonar contact on that ship of yours is seen (this ship could be a merchant / commercial fleet for all i care.. or a Babkhan destroyer out and about)? Or do they go when the first ship is sighted and its flags read?
Probably cause you are trying to pull things out of movies or just "awesome ideas" without thinking if it would be possible realistically.6: Why does it seem like I'm the only person in this war who is trying to do something out of the ordinary? That's twice now I've done an intermicronational wartime first.
hey, like I said above, Demon brought up timing issues with my aircrafts coming in. (which i agree are wrong on my behalf) Do you really expect him to agree that my destroyers are now firing their torpedoes and depth charges on him ?Obviously, with the time thing, Longbow's forces either come in when they would catch up to you after you left after finishing the battle (assuming you survive - you've got far more points of subs than your fleet), or they'd catch up to you mid fight if it lasts a long, long time. Yeah, time gets a little odd, but that shouldn't make you immune to others combatting you.
But yeah, I wouldn't mind Longbow's forces to fight me after I am done with Demon (if i survive). If he wanted to fight me alongside Demon's forces, he should have set sailed from Jasonia when Demon started. Not now (or 3 days ago as he says).
North only knows the location of my two submarines. The surface fleet is still 800 to 1000 kms far.(and North would tell him where your ships are).
Notice, how I say 2 submarines and surface fleet, while I got 3 more submarines in my orbat? That's because my units are spread up and in different places/times. So, while my surface fleet and the 2 submarines under attack by Demon are "stuck" in a slow time zone, the other three aren't.
If you want action, you'll get some action from them. Infact... I think I have spent enough time with those units to get them to er.. wherever I want them to go. Now, where's that novatainia description file I have...
-
- Posts: 5024
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: Novatainia
- Contact:
Re: Longbow of Toketi
Extreme, remember my ship dropping monty's soldiers off, then a secret move? That's when he started sailing. Yes, it's been pm'd to the judge.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
Ah okay. So, that's where it was posted. Okay makes sense now.
But if you see two posts above, that's where my and Demon's battles actually started... so, you see we got a timing problem... we could either:
1. NSS Camel has been heading towards Toketi waters (or area of battle between me and North) for a few minutes only (thus putting this ship in time sync with my and North's forces).
2. NSS Camel and Longbow's forces will have to wait until my and Demon's battle is done. If I survive, one or two in-game days would have passed before my and longbow's forces battle each other. Simply because my and demon's battle is not going to take 3 days in-game time (we are hardly an hour into the battle and already both of my submarines are almost rendered useless and North has 4 or so ships rendered useless or destroyed).
If we go with 2, and my units are destroyed, that would mean that NSS Camel and Longbow's units have traveled all the way to Toketi for no reason! And they would require another 3 days to get back to Jasonia.
If we go with 1, and suddenly NSS Camel and longbow's forces are required around Jasonia, then they can simply move there right away, as they are only a few minutes farther from Jasonia. But that would mean they would have to wait for 3 days (in-game time, relative to my/north battle) before they can get to where me and north are duking it out.
Make sense? If so, which option do you want to take?
But if you see two posts above, that's where my and Demon's battles actually started... so, you see we got a timing problem... we could either:
1. NSS Camel has been heading towards Toketi waters (or area of battle between me and North) for a few minutes only (thus putting this ship in time sync with my and North's forces).
2. NSS Camel and Longbow's forces will have to wait until my and Demon's battle is done. If I survive, one or two in-game days would have passed before my and longbow's forces battle each other. Simply because my and demon's battle is not going to take 3 days in-game time (we are hardly an hour into the battle and already both of my submarines are almost rendered useless and North has 4 or so ships rendered useless or destroyed).
If we go with 2, and my units are destroyed, that would mean that NSS Camel and Longbow's units have traveled all the way to Toketi for no reason! And they would require another 3 days to get back to Jasonia.
If we go with 1, and suddenly NSS Camel and longbow's forces are required around Jasonia, then they can simply move there right away, as they are only a few minutes farther from Jasonia. But that would mean they would have to wait for 3 days (in-game time, relative to my/north battle) before they can get to where me and north are duking it out.
Make sense? If so, which option do you want to take?
-
- Posts: 5024
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: Novatainia
- Contact:
Re: Longbow of Toketi
It makes perfect sense, apart from the "travel all the way to Toketi" bit. I don't know if Longbow made it clear (it was certainly there in our pm to the judges) - we know where your fleet is because North has told us. That is, we know as much as North does. So if your fleet is entirely destroyed, North tells us and we ... I dunno, I'll let Longbow decide.
I'd personally go with Option 2 (considering, as I pointed out, that North tells us to turn around if we aren't needed) but I'll let Longbow decide, he has control of the ship until his attack is sorted.
And really, it would be easiest if you and North just exchange details, chat with eachother and sort out the damages all at once so things can keep going. At worst, meet in #micronations.
I'd personally go with Option 2 (considering, as I pointed out, that North tells us to turn around if we aren't needed) but I'll let Longbow decide, he has control of the ship until his attack is sorted.
And really, it would be easiest if you and North just exchange details, chat with eachother and sort out the damages all at once so things can keep going. At worst, meet in #micronations.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
seeing as i'm in the middle of typing an unholy large post responding to each of the points you made, i'll write this separately.extreme007 wrote:Ah okay. So, that's where it was posted. Okay makes sense now.
But if you see two posts above, that's where my and Demon's battles actually started... so, you see we got a timing problem... we could either:
1. NSS Camel has been heading towards Toketi waters (or area of battle between me and North) for a few minutes only (thus putting this ship in time sync with my and North's forces).
2. NSS Camel and Longbow's forces will have to wait until my and Demon's battle is done. If I survive, one or two in-game days would have passed before my and longbow's forces battle each other. Simply because my and demon's battle is not going to take 3 days in-game time (we are hardly an hour into the battle and already both of my submarines are almost rendered useless and North has 4 or so ships rendered useless or destroyed).
If we go with 2, and my units are destroyed, that would mean that NSS Camel and Longbow's units have traveled all the way to Toketi for no reason! And they would require another 3 days to get back to Jasonia.
If we go with 1, and suddenly NSS Camel and longbow's forces are required around Jasonia, then they can simply move there right away, as they are only a few minutes farther from Jasonia. But that would mean they would have to wait for 3 days (in-game time, relative to my/north battle) before they can get to where me and north are duking it out.
Make sense? If so, which option do you want to take?
Here's the one thing you're missing. At this point, I don't give a dammo what happens in Jasonia. I'm in this to kill you (and maybe Monty if the story allows and if i get a suitable tactic).
if you're dead (100% dead that is, seeing as all your troops are either naval or on the carrier), north told me and i turned around, and returned to Jasonia to plot more horrendous deeds.
if you're not, then I kept coming and performed the posted attack.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
so, that's option 2 then. good.
Longbow and my forces (if they survive) will engage in a battle after mine and North's battle is done. Until then, NSS Camel and longbow's units are in a state of limbo somewhere nearby unable to fight or do anything really...
Longbow and my forces (if they survive) will engage in a battle after mine and North's battle is done. Until then, NSS Camel and longbow's units are in a state of limbo somewhere nearby unable to fight or do anything really...
If I survive, I'll start our battle by a post that would say that 2 days had passed etc.. etc... and suddenly, I spotted NSS Camel on my sonar and radar.. or something to that effect. And we can take it from there...if you're not, then I kept coming and performed the posted attack.
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
so do i need to post the paragraphs of info i have typed up and stored in response to your last post (that did the same thing), or can we continue this without the endless back and forth???
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
well.. right now, we are not sure if we are going to face each other... my units could be dead at the hands of Demon of North... or they could be forced into doing something (like i dont know.. run aground at Ocia or something).
when the battle with North is over, we can see where to start. at the moment, i can't say anything. as for you, NSS Camel and your units are in a state of limbo for now, till the battle with Demon is over.
when the battle with North is over, we can see where to start. at the moment, i can't say anything. as for you, NSS Camel and your units are in a state of limbo for now, till the battle with Demon is over.
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Re: Longbow of Toketi
another point i would like to make:
http://www.micras.org/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8&start=15
read through that.
after you're done, you'll have noticed that since initial casualties were still under debate, i was stuck in the mud unable to do anything. For mostly the entire war. And the end result? 75% casualties (of mine) from attacks that were made while i was unable to move my troops some-friggin-where else: as decided by the judges.
also discussed in that forum was city defenses. Even though the defenses for the city in question (Shilton) had not been posted ANYWHERE in any of the war forums, they still would have been available for use to kill off any of the attacking units. Not all of the units described defending the city were posted in orbats, therefore they would currently be considered non-orbatted units (go figure).
SO: either I'm calling bullshit on extreme's attacks, or am calling bullshit on Iehova's defenses from WW2 to shit on his name and rep. Your call.
ALSO: Going off of a previous judicial ruling: extreme: your troops can not have gone anywhere during the battle with north, because their status of living or not is in question.
http://www.micras.org/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8&start=15
read through that.
after you're done, you'll have noticed that since initial casualties were still under debate, i was stuck in the mud unable to do anything. For mostly the entire war. And the end result? 75% casualties (of mine) from attacks that were made while i was unable to move my troops some-friggin-where else: as decided by the judges.
also discussed in that forum was city defenses. Even though the defenses for the city in question (Shilton) had not been posted ANYWHERE in any of the war forums, they still would have been available for use to kill off any of the attacking units. Not all of the units described defending the city were posted in orbats, therefore they would currently be considered non-orbatted units (go figure).
SO: either I'm calling bullshit on extreme's attacks, or am calling bullshit on Iehova's defenses from WW2 to shit on his name and rep. Your call.
ALSO: Going off of a previous judicial ruling: extreme: your troops can not have gone anywhere during the battle with north, because their status of living or not is in question.