Demon of North
-
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:35 pm
Re: Demon of North
weren't you in the open waters off the eastern coast? and there by no closed area guaranteeing that i passed in front of you...
and it probably does make a difference, well it might. the question is when did you set up your ASW operations and travel formation?
since if that was before then perhaps we would have a run in before but if you started that set up after you left and i was there prior to your setting up that movement formation then i would have been behind not in front and not run into your subs.
and if there was a run in then the battle would have just been in parts, your subs jump a few of my mini's then the rest come to engage then your fleet moves up then my larger subs get into it.
I mean even just looking at my mini's i have eight subs none of which are all that loud you might pick up a couple but you'd probably miss atleast half and then they would swarm you.
and as for detection and all any way. a soviet kilo (the deisel standby) has
not saying you wouldn't find one or two with your ambush just saying i doubt you'd pick up all eight.
and it probably does make a difference, well it might. the question is when did you set up your ASW operations and travel formation?
since if that was before then perhaps we would have a run in before but if you started that set up after you left and i was there prior to your setting up that movement formation then i would have been behind not in front and not run into your subs.
and if there was a run in then the battle would have just been in parts, your subs jump a few of my mini's then the rest come to engage then your fleet moves up then my larger subs get into it.
I mean even just looking at my mini's i have eight subs none of which are all that loud you might pick up a couple but you'd probably miss atleast half and then they would swarm you.
and as for detection and all any way. a soviet kilo (the deisel standby) has
my mini's have only 2 forward and one aft tubes but cost the same so by the logic of them having far less firepower wouldn't that mean that they make up the gap in being more stealthy and somehow survivable.Armament
* Air defence: 8 SA-N-8 Gremlin or SA-N-10 Gimlet[4] Surface-to-air missiles (export submarines may not be equipped with air defense weapons)
* Six 533 mm torpedo tubes with 18 53-65 ASuW or TEST 71/76 ASW torpedoes or VA-111 Shkval supercavitating "underwater missiles", or 24 DM-1 mines,
not saying you wouldn't find one or two with your ambush just saying i doubt you'd pick up all eight.
- Lord_Montague
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:39 pm
Re: Demon of North
That article on the Integrated Power System said a lot but nothing of substance.Well my debate point is that no my subs are not supposed to be diesel.
they were supposed to use something similar to the US navy's Integrated power system
also just curious what it the weapons capability on a diesel sub such as on in the charter? my subs only have 2 forward and 1 aft tube so i figured that they had less offensive capability than a deisel but were stealthier.
There are only 3 submarine power systems at the moment; Nuclear, Diesel and Air Independent Propulsion. A lot of those AIPs also have diesels because under AIP they can't travel that fast. Purely electric submarines, such as what I believe the IPS above is moving towards, would require huge batteries to store the necessary electricity needed to power the submarine.
In Battle; Unbeatable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
-
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:35 pm
Re: Demon of North
yeah ok so perhaps that article was bad... i remember having seen one a while back on it, i think in reference to Zumwult class destroyers but couldn't find it.
here's my problem though, I would never have used deisel subs. If however these were desiel subs they would have significantly more fire power since they could then launch volley's of 6 torpedoes instead of just 2.
regardless they would have been moving ready for a fight so would even if surprised probably have a chance to try to fire back.
so here's what I ask either keep them as quiet but lacking firepower (not diesel) or make them diesel but factor them in as having more power in any fights. so basically either we can keep them as is and such or change them to be basically kilo class subs.
also just thought of this diesel subs don't use their diesel engines under water. they can't the gasses would kill the crew. they use batteries they just need to surface or snorkel about every few hours to recharge the batteries (by running the diesel engine). diesel sub draw backs are they make alot of noise with their diesel engines (when their running) and that they cant remain under water for that long (need to recharge batteries)
there by unless i was snorkeling when i ran into extreme I think the whole diesel point is somewhat void anyway.
then if indeed my subs are diesel they would probably be different than my orbated subs and have as much punch as extreme's subs if just less capability to stay under water, so then as soon as he fires and i know hes there he would be getting swarmed by subs that really aren't that much less potent than his (firepower) if more limited in their operational parameters.
sorry if i rambled or kept coming back to the same things as i was typing i started to remember exactly how diesel subs work (basically my train of thought was kind of random)
here's my problem though, I would never have used deisel subs. If however these were desiel subs they would have significantly more fire power since they could then launch volley's of 6 torpedoes instead of just 2.
regardless they would have been moving ready for a fight so would even if surprised probably have a chance to try to fire back.
so here's what I ask either keep them as quiet but lacking firepower (not diesel) or make them diesel but factor them in as having more power in any fights. so basically either we can keep them as is and such or change them to be basically kilo class subs.
also just thought of this diesel subs don't use their diesel engines under water. they can't the gasses would kill the crew. they use batteries they just need to surface or snorkel about every few hours to recharge the batteries (by running the diesel engine). diesel sub draw backs are they make alot of noise with their diesel engines (when their running) and that they cant remain under water for that long (need to recharge batteries)
there by unless i was snorkeling when i ran into extreme I think the whole diesel point is somewhat void anyway.
then if indeed my subs are diesel they would probably be different than my orbated subs and have as much punch as extreme's subs if just less capability to stay under water, so then as soon as he fires and i know hes there he would be getting swarmed by subs that really aren't that much less potent than his (firepower) if more limited in their operational parameters.
sorry if i rambled or kept coming back to the same things as i was typing i started to remember exactly how diesel subs work (basically my train of thought was kind of random)
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Demon of North
my surface fleet was.. Yes.weren't you in the open waters off the eastern coast?
ASW operations were always performed. Travel information (specifically which ship was how far) was sent to the judges after my attack on Din Arran. I think. Though, to be honest, it should be backdated (in terms of real world time) to after my aircrafts returned from the attack on Voltear's units at Praygullinia. Cause that's when those surface fleets should have moved out of the region.when did you set up your ASW operations and travel formation?
However, that being said, my two submarines were in their positions, as i mentioned, long before i even sent my attacks against the cities. So, probably around the time when your submarines were engaged in attacks against the Batavians.
Now, with that said, here's what we could do:
1. Your mini-subs (all electric as you mentioned) are very quiet and slip by my two submarines. I'll make a post saying they heard some whales move by (but in reality were your ships) or something. But I detect the rest of your submarine fleet as it comes.
2. I detect your very quiet mini-subs with my submarines.
If we go with 1, your mini-subs are totally unknown to my commanders to be present in between my surface fleet and my submarines, giving them an advantage. However, my ships are already conducting ASW operation, so your mini-subs will have to figure out some way of getting close enough to fire the missiles/torpedoes.
The larger submarine fleet of yours would be detected by my submarines, and thus my commanders would know of an attack in bound. Thus, they would become more paranoid and perform more ASW operations. Also, we could have a skirmish amongst my submarines and your (non-mini) submarines. Whatever the outcome, the rest of the surface fleet already knows of the inbound attack and thus, would take the possible necessary precautions.
If we go with 2, your mini-subs are detected and engaged by my submarines. Again, my commanders are all aware of an in bound attack and get paranoid. Your mini-subs and my submarines engage in battle. The remaining submarine fleet of yours could join this skirmish (though it would take some time for them to join in). Whatever the outcome, the rest of my surface fleet already knows of the inbound attack and thus, would take the possible necessary precautions.
Now, which one do you suggest we take?
I went over the site you showed. At first it looked quite bogus (to be honest), but then realized its quite very official stuff. So, I'll accept the all-electric stuff (provided the judge allows).
-
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:35 pm
Re: Demon of North
well the wars about over and i dont really mind an all out gun battle, if thats how you'd like to play it.
so how about this.
your subs are out trying to detect incoming forces first they hear something strange go by but as it isn't something they can recognize they don't do anything (decide to radio it in at the next check-up but not surface for what maybe nothing). Then they hear it again but this time their are two signatures one of which also has some further unusual noise then the second one suddenly squeaks (the damaged sub being effected by the water pressure) which alerts your subs to the presence of enemy. at this moment they have three contacts two ahead and one already past but still not too far off.
if your ok with that ^ feel free to post a response and we can continue from there. maybe have some fun with this. Im sure monty will be floating around if we run into debate or get stuck.
and in the spirit of fun here's my fleet set up moving by for reference i just hope you dont use OOC knowledge (maybe a run across but not a full on finding all my subs)
Mini's 1 got past you completely un-noticed the second is the first contact (you know roughly where he is) then there are the two coming at you now. the other 4 (remeber you dont see these last few yet)are still coming up 2 following the two you see currently the last 2 are further away and are unlikely to be detected (due to distance)
wolf pack 3 is directly following the mini's currently not detected would take about 1 minute to respond/reach mini's current location.
Wolf pack 2 off to one side of pack 3 (a good ways) 2 minutes to reach mini's
Wolf pack 1 off to the other side of pack 3, 2 minutes to reach mini's
i think this could be fun so you up for playing it out?
so how about this.
your subs are out trying to detect incoming forces first they hear something strange go by but as it isn't something they can recognize they don't do anything (decide to radio it in at the next check-up but not surface for what maybe nothing). Then they hear it again but this time their are two signatures one of which also has some further unusual noise then the second one suddenly squeaks (the damaged sub being effected by the water pressure) which alerts your subs to the presence of enemy. at this moment they have three contacts two ahead and one already past but still not too far off.
if your ok with that ^ feel free to post a response and we can continue from there. maybe have some fun with this. Im sure monty will be floating around if we run into debate or get stuck.
and in the spirit of fun here's my fleet set up moving by for reference i just hope you dont use OOC knowledge (maybe a run across but not a full on finding all my subs)
Mini's 1 got past you completely un-noticed the second is the first contact (you know roughly where he is) then there are the two coming at you now. the other 4 (remeber you dont see these last few yet)are still coming up 2 following the two you see currently the last 2 are further away and are unlikely to be detected (due to distance)
wolf pack 3 is directly following the mini's currently not detected would take about 1 minute to respond/reach mini's current location.
Wolf pack 2 off to one side of pack 3 (a good ways) 2 minutes to reach mini's
Wolf pack 1 off to the other side of pack 3, 2 minutes to reach mini's
i think this could be fun so you up for playing it out?
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Demon of North
sounds like a plan... so, i am responding when the minis are out... which means that my surface fleet is not being followed at all by anything.. and it would take a long time before your submarines reach that.. if they do indeed show up here.
-
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:35 pm
Re: Demon of North
whatever just post where your fleet is in reference to each other and rough time to reach the possible mini sub battle like i did
then go ahead with your action.
then go ahead with your action.
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Demon of North
my surface fleet is quite far actually. whoops, wait a minute. i did some math calculations to realize that i would need around 30 hours (in game time) to reach the area of action.
however, then realized i could simply use the 500 pixels a day for navy instead. so, with that in mind, i can reach your place in half a day. so, 12 hours (in game time).
yes. my surface fleet is quite far.
however, then realized i could simply use the 500 pixels a day for navy instead. so, with that in mind, i can reach your place in half a day. so, 12 hours (in game time).
yes. my surface fleet is quite far.
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Re: Demon of North
Extreme: Where exactly are you while all this is going on?
-
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 pm
Re: Demon of North
which part of me?
at the start of conflict (with Demon):
surface fleet was near Toketi wars, just beginning to head south.
2 submarines were in waters near Hurmu ... these are the ones that engaged Demon's submarines. Also the ones that just fired 1 (or 2) missiles at ojaDom or some place like that of Toketi's.
1 submarine attacked Novatainia, and then ran away. (thank you for reminding me of this).
A few more units are somewhere randomly doing something random.
at the start of conflict (with Demon):
surface fleet was near Toketi wars, just beginning to head south.
2 submarines were in waters near Hurmu ... these are the ones that engaged Demon's submarines. Also the ones that just fired 1 (or 2) missiles at ojaDom or some place like that of Toketi's.
1 submarine attacked Novatainia, and then ran away. (thank you for reminding me of this).
A few more units are somewhere randomly doing something random.