[IDD] Hold my beer
Moderator: Staff
[IDD] Hold my beer
Name: Francisco Dei Barbone
Nation: Imperial Dominion of Dragonera
Contact: PM
Request/Note:
With the distribution of Batavian-held lands by Arkadius' will, the Grand Duchy of Helderbourgh reverts to my control. As such I am formally claiming and unclaiming said territory at the same time.
1. The lands controlled by Helderbourgh will be vacated and returned to the green. Insert appropriate apocalyptic event here (2020 offers plenty of choices).
2. Dragonera will reallocate some of the territory gained via Helderbourgh by claiming lands elsewhere on Micras. In particular we are laying claim to what remains of Norfolk, the vacated Baracao, Freenesia, and La Plata. Each of these areas has historical and/or cultural ties to Minorca/Baracao/Dragonera.
3. As the ostensible objective of Dragonera is the restoration of the Minorcan Imperium this makes much more sense both historically and logistically. The small ports being claimed offer a series of refueling depots en route to Andromeda and Banderas.
4. The territory gained by Dragonera is significantly less than that being vacated with the removal of Helderbourgh.
5. The removal of Helderbourgh also clears the way for Rasmus and Jonas to deal with their respective story arcs without interference or conflicting claims.
Claim:
Nation: Imperial Dominion of Dragonera
Contact: PM
Request/Note:
With the distribution of Batavian-held lands by Arkadius' will, the Grand Duchy of Helderbourgh reverts to my control. As such I am formally claiming and unclaiming said territory at the same time.
1. The lands controlled by Helderbourgh will be vacated and returned to the green. Insert appropriate apocalyptic event here (2020 offers plenty of choices).
2. Dragonera will reallocate some of the territory gained via Helderbourgh by claiming lands elsewhere on Micras. In particular we are laying claim to what remains of Norfolk, the vacated Baracao, Freenesia, and La Plata. Each of these areas has historical and/or cultural ties to Minorca/Baracao/Dragonera.
3. As the ostensible objective of Dragonera is the restoration of the Minorcan Imperium this makes much more sense both historically and logistically. The small ports being claimed offer a series of refueling depots en route to Andromeda and Banderas.
4. The territory gained by Dragonera is significantly less than that being vacated with the removal of Helderbourgh.
5. The removal of Helderbourgh also clears the way for Rasmus and Jonas to deal with their respective story arcs without interference or conflicting claims.
Claim:
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Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
With all respect, Orion, but I didn't read anything about those lands reverting to your hands...
(I don't know if there was a treaty or agreement concerning this matter, by the way).
Don't get me wrong: I'm not against you doing this per se, but I would at least have wanted to be warned beforehand. These lands are currently 'Batavian' and you using them to establish a new nation out of the blue leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.The Grand Duchy of Heroerbourgh, which I held in custody for Orion, remains under the Batavian flag;
(I don't know if there was a treaty or agreement concerning this matter, by the way).
Honoured Servant of the Jingdaoese Heavenly Light and the Kaiseress of Shireroth
Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
Arkadius was granted temporary control over Helderbourgh while I was dealing with the death of two family members. We had a formal understanding that whenever I chose to retake the reigns that I would be able to do so without objection or dispute.Jonas Windsor wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:06 amWith all respect, Orion, but I didn't read anything about those lands reverting to your hands...
Don't get me wrong: I'm not against you doing this per se, but I would at least have wanted to be warned beforehand. These lands are currently 'Batavian' and you using them to establish a new nation out of the blue leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.The Grand Duchy of Heroerbourgh, which I held in custody for Orion, remains under the Batavian flag;
(I don't know if there was a treaty or agreement concerning this matter, by the way).
I chose to let Arky continue running Helderbourgh as he was doing nice work with it and I was focusing on other projects. But never did I relinquish my right to exercise control over it.
Given his departure and the collapse of his ‘empire’ Helderbourgh reverts to me by right. I’m sorry that this was unknown to you, but I can’t change that now. Removing Helderbourgh allows me to claim the lands I want and allows Rasmus to develop his new project. If Batavia wishes to reclaim that land then it’s free to submit a separate expansion and justify it on its own merit, not by claiming my work.
Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
Note that if proof is required I still have the relevant private messages at Bastion between myself and Arkadius. I can forward them to Jonas and Craitman upon request.
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Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
I don't doubt your words and wouldn't dare to say you're lying.
Last edited by Jonas Windsor on Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
Please. As far as the MCS is concerned, protectorates come under nations, not individuals; à la the map legend. So Helderbourgh is under Batavia's rule, and Arky's departure doesn't suddenly end that. In the same vein, dismantling Helderbourgh just means that Batavia loses land, it doesn't mean that Dragonera suddenly deserves to claim more as some kind of makeweight...
Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
I don't doubt your words and wouldn't dare to say you're lying.Jonas Windsor wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:08 pm[quote=Orion post_id=99704 time=<a href="tel:1592409208">1592409208</a> user_id=126]
Note that if proof is required I still have the relevant private messages at Bastion between myself and Arkadius. I can forward them to Jonas and Craitman upon request.
[/quote]
I wasn’t implying such. I apologize if that’s how my statement was interpreted. My point was that, if needed, I can share the relevant information.
Please. As far as the MCS is concerned, protectorates come under nations, not individuals; à la the map legend. So Helderbourgh is under Batavia's rule, and Arky's departure doesn't suddenly end that. In the same vein, dismantling Helderbourgh just means that Batavia loses land, it doesn't mean that Dragonera suddenly deserves to claim more as some kind of makeweight...
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With all due respect, we’ll just have to agree to disagree here. Because I see plenty of precedent set for doing exactly that. Rasmus’ plan to abandon Apollonia for Cibola is the same thing. As for Helderbourgh’s status, it is not within the purview of the MCS for it to decide who owns it and who doesn’t- that’s a matter to be decided between myself and Jonas (who seems to have already indicated consent). If the council is unwilling to grant the above claim then we’ll simply move forward with claiming Helderbourgh verbatim. But that’s for the council to decide.
Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
And to those saying I’m not active enough, I just posted a very long chronicle of Minorca’s history. I think that counts as significant activity.
Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
As far as I can tell, before that Dragonera had no activity for nearly three months. That's on the line for removal, not expansion. If you can show activity during those three months that warrant an expansion, I'll happily change my vote.
Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
1. The expansion isn’t that much land. Several enclaves and Baracao. This will likely be the maximum extent of Dragonera’s claims (unless we actually get Athlon/Minorca back, which seems unlikely).
2. I had posted an absentee notice. So I don’t think my inactivity during that period should be held against me.
3. The chronicle is quite lengthy and took quite some time to write. It’s something I’ve been working on for a while. That should be pretty self evident. Just because I choose to post it in large pieces versus the typical small multitude of posts that is common should not make a difference. I was under the impression that the council could discern quality over quantity.
2. I had posted an absentee notice. So I don’t think my inactivity during that period should be held against me.
3. The chronicle is quite lengthy and took quite some time to write. It’s something I’ve been working on for a while. That should be pretty self evident. Just because I choose to post it in large pieces versus the typical small multitude of posts that is common should not make a difference. I was under the impression that the council could discern quality over quantity.
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Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
The point isn't the size of the expansion. If a member is close to the threshold for removal, it's because it isn't sustaining the land it already has.Orion wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:40 am1. The expansion isn’t that much land. Several enclaves and Baracao. This will likely be the maximum extent of Dragonera’s claims (unless we actually get Athlon/Minorca back, which seems unlikely).
2. I had posted an absentee notice. So I don’t think my inactivity during that period should be held against me.
3. The chronicle is quite lengthy and took quite some time to write. It’s something I’ve been working on for a while. That should be pretty self evident. Just because I choose to post it in large pieces versus the typical small multitude of posts that is common should not make a difference. I was under the impression that the council could discern quality over quantity.
As for the quality over quantity argument, the Council currently doesn't have the power to decide based on the quality of content produced, it explicitly states that the quantity of posts per day forms part of the equation. The new Charter proposal seeks to address this, as the Council does agree that quality content is more important.
An absentee notice is intended for Council members, generally to forgive a 14 day absence, which under the Charter would usually warrant a dismissal from office. A Council member that was completely absent for three months would be expected to resign, and similarly, a nation that does not develop at all over three months is a candidate for removal. I appreciate that there are good reasons for your absence, however, we currently require a bare minimum of four posts/edits a year to remain on the map. That is pretty achievable even in the craziest of circumstances.
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Re: [IDD] Hold my beer
So your only activity for Dragonera in the past three months is detailing the history of a nation which hasn't been on the map since March 2006, whose land isn't congruent with Dragonera's nor is likely to ever be claimed by Dragonera, and is on an article that isn't categorised under Dragonera. I'm sure you can see why it doesn't look particularly Dragonera-related!
That said, if we take that article into account for Dragonera, that'd be enough to stave off a removal for sure, but still doesn't support an expansion as far as I'm concerned.