Hub.mn

Name & Title: Lord Erion
E-Mail/Contact: PM
Nation: Realm of Elwynn
Request:

Notes:
Amokolian declaration of independence from the Victorian Empire
Act on Amokolia by the Realm of Elwynn

As the most senior active Victorian, I signify my agreement with this.

Sounds fair enough...

Well, everyone knows I'm biased here, so here's my biased opinion.

There's no such country as "Amokolia". The last post by an Amokolian other than Daniel Kalirion was two months ago; the last post before that was four months ago. The only response to Daniel's "declaration of independence" has been a spambot. I have no doubt that Daniel took the basic precaution of asking Jess if declaring Amokolian independence was okay, and I have no doubt Jess gave him the answer he wanted, which is "That place is still around? Whatever."

Given that Daniel Kalirion, the founder of Elwynn, is Amokolia's only active citizen, this is less "a country deciding to join Elwynn" and more "Daniel deciding to take some dead land to which he has a claim and stick it in his other country".

So the question is, given that Elwynn gets no new citizens from this "annexation", does it deserve to have its land area approximately doubled? According to the last forumcheck, Elwynn had six posts per day; many of those are just from the trial thread. Annexation of Amokolia would make this five month old, largely inactive nation larger than Batavia and almost as big as Ashkenatza.

The question is whether you want to continue the MCS' policy of tying land to the activity level of a country, or reward these typical Iainesque games in which people try to boost their land area by asserting eternal claim to dead ruins better left to rest in peace.

Scott, your bias clearly knows no bounds, but in these circumstances I confess a small preference for mere facts. Amokolia is a Kingdom, formerly part of the Victoria Empire, and now part of the Realm of Elwynn. The declaration of independence was a response to earlier discussions in Amokolia about the possible direction that both it and Victoria could have potentially taken by now, including variations on the final decision to unify it with Elwynn. As a result of that, Elwynn gains a new (and also) returning citizen. As its overall activity has more than trebled over the past month, as well having more than doubled since independence, Elwynn is currently more active than such well-established nations such as Gotzborg, Normark, Natopia and Babkha, to name but a few. I doubt very much that I could get away with calling those nations inactive, so quite a few of us would appreciate it if you could possibly refrain from applying that term to Elwynn for the time being. There is also a little bit more to Elwynn than the infamous trial of Ardashir the Fallen. You may be surprised to learn that 85% of Elwynn is not a protracted court case, but some of that is a privilege for our citizens only, and seems now to be beyond even the reach of the once fabled SHINE.

Wait, really? No one could get away with calling places like Normark and Babkha inactive? The King of Normark mooted the idea of closing the nation due to inactivity two weeks ago, and the first response to the last topic posted in Babkhan General is "Apparently everyone's not dead yet!" Those are the places you want to use in your "of course Elwynn is active" argument?

Yes, you have tripled your previous activity level of *checks* two posts per day. And yes, as you say, you are now slightly more active than countries that are seriously considering closing themselves down due to inactivity. There is a big difference between that, and "deserves to have their territory suddenly doubled in size".

What new citizen does Elwynn gain from the annexation of Amokolia, why has that citizen not posted on the Amokolian forums in several months, and what makes you think that this citizen who has not been active in Amokolia will suddenly be active in Elwynn? Unless you're talking about the spambot who was the only reply to the declaration of independence.

To be honest, Iain, I would accept these arguments from anyone except you. But you've always been like a dragon who steals valuables from other people and then hoards them forever without using them. It happened with Treesia. It happened with the Grand Commonwealth and the Imperium Incognita. It happened the last time you wore the ducal coronet of Elwynn and had to be Mubarak-ed out of the position. I'm no longer fooled by it and I hope the MCS won't be either.

siriain wrote:Elwynn is currently more active than such well-established nations such as Gotzborg, Normark, Natopia and Babkha, to name but a few

I am flattered to know that you think of Normark as a well-established nation!

I doubt very much that I could get away with calling those nations inactive, so quite a few of us would appreciate it if you could possibly refrain from applying that term to Elwynn for the time being.

I'd be the first to agree with you, the current statement I get when I do bring it up is "Dammit Nick, it isn't that inactive, shut up" by citizens and non-citizens alike. I am clearly paraphrasing but you get the gist. Normark certainly is a lot less active these days but it isn't completely inactive. I do work tirelessly to bring activity to Normark any way I can. I must be doing SOMETHING right though, as I've been dubbed a well-established nation.

Scott Alexander wrote:Wait, really? No one could get away with calling places like Normark and Babkha inactive?

No, I said I doubted that I could get away with it. I was not attempting to assume what others might do, nor assuming I was right.

Scott Alexander wrote:you are now slightly more active than countries that are seriously considering closing themselves down due to inactivity

There may be a recent abdication or two, thoughts of relocation and some creative activity, but there appear to be no such suggestions so far this year of anyone giving up in those nations??

Scott Alexander wrote:There is a big difference between that, and "deserves to have their territory suddenly doubled in size".

True, but as you brought that subject up, I was only challenging your definition of inactivity, nothing else.

Scott Alexander wrote:What new citizen does Elwynn gain from the annexation of Amokolia, why has that citizen not posted on the Amokolian forums in several months, and what makes you think that this citizen who has not been active in Amokolia will suddenly be active in Elwynn?

That would be the same citizen who has quite coincidentally signed in a few hours before this on the Elwynn forums, perhaps?

Scott Alexander wrote:But you've always been like a dragon who steals valuables from other people and then hoards them forever without using them.

As far as I can tell no-one's stealing anything, but please feel free to correct me.

Einhorn wrote:I'd be the first to agree with you, the current statement I get when I do bring it up is "Dammit Nick, it isn't that inactive, shut up" by citizens and non-citizens alike. I am clearly paraphrasing but you get the gist. Normark certainly is a lot less active these days but it isn't completely inactive. I do work tirelessly to bring activity to Normark any way I can.

You have my sympathies.

Scott, Amokolia fails to meet standards for removal, therefore its citizens can do basically whatever they want with it. Even if there's only one of them left.

Scott, Amokolia fails to meet standards for removal, therefore its citizens can do basically whatever they want with it. Even if there's only one of them left.

Huh? Amokolia totally meets standards for removal, it's had far less than 1 ppd for the last three months and beyond. It's hard to tell because of data anomalies including spam bots and post loss, but I believe the entire Victorian board including Amokolia has had less than 1 ppd for the past three months. So I'm not really clear on what you mean here.

That would be the same citizen who has quite coincidentally signed in a few hours before this on the Elwynn forums, perhaps?

So Jess hasn't really been active for the past four or five months, but you think he'll jump back in now that Daniel has taken Amokolia into Elwynn. Who knows, perhaps Jess wants to make a fresh start in Elwynn. Just as he briefly tried to make a fresh start in all the other countries that have annexed Amokolia in the past. Like Gralus. And Ocia. And Ashkenatza. And Victoria. And all the other places that led Aster to say on the last annexation thread that he was "waiting with bated breath to see which micronation will be the next contestant for Jess to prostitute Amokolia to." I hope I won't be too polite to laugh when he immediately goes inactive and then comes back several months later and tries to secede.

Scott Alexander wrote:Huh? Amokolia totally meets standards for removal, it's had far less than 1 ppd for the last three months and beyond.

Nope. It comes under Victoria, so its old forum data is irrelevant

I believe the entire Victorian board including Amokolia has had less than 1 ppd for the past three months.

Nope. Although saying that, it's had a lot disappear through a botched update and has had a lot of spam recently, so we shall have to go through last month's posts to decide whether they're reduction-worthy

Nope. It comes under Victoria, so its old forum data is irrelevant

I understand that. I believe Harvey was making the separate argument that Amokolia was itself sustainable as a country, which it is not. At the very least, saying "Amokolia doesn't meet the standards for removal" is twisting the truth, since it either meets those standards or else those standards don't apply to it.

I'm guessing he meant the latter, but just worded it differently

Yep!

There's a lot of talk around these parts about what I say. It's like I'm a next generation cryptic prophet.

Next-gen Soloralism: Who needs Brappa, we have Sai'Kar, the cryptic prophetess!