[Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
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Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
Your Majesty, I am sure that we are all grateful that you have taken the time and trouble to respond to this issue here. However, I would like to take the liberty of drawing your attention to a number of points of which you ought to be aware:
1. The initial complaint was posted publicly by Daniel Kalirion in Amokolia last October. A month later it was repeated, as no response had forthcome from anyone. A week after that, Lord Dundas, your Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, encouraged Mr Kalirion to suggest any plans or proposals that he might have had in mind for Amokolia, as Victoria had "seriously died". The initial plan was to be a parallel union to the Bastion Union, comprising Elwynn, Amokolia, and Hurmu for a start. Lord Dundas believed that wasn't such a bad idea, but was concerned about future red tape occurring, and suggested a unified MP system for both Amokolia and Victoria as an alternative. Nothing further then happened for another month, until Mr Kalirion issued the declaration of independence, based on the same grounds as the original complaint.
2. Your 2009 treaty of annexation of Amokolia includes a number of articles, which, by virtue of the grounds of the original complaint, the admissions of both Lord Dundas and your Royal Majesty, and the description of Amokolia's state in recent months above by Mr Scott Alexander, have clearly not been fulfilled after a reasonable period of time , nor would it seem, that Victoria has ever been in a position to. Therefore, any reasonable person would consider the treaty by now to be null and void, as Mr Kalirion apparently realised four months ago.
We understand that the people of Amokolia are resolved that Victoria has failed to keep its part of the treaty of annexation, and that consequently sufficient notice of succession was given, and that their right to self-determination has been appropriately exercised. We are also satisfied that the people of Elwynn did unanimously approve the wish of the Amokolians to join them, and are pleased to report that this has already resulted in the return of formerly absent Amokolians. If they are willing to do so under the circumstances, then we can safely assure you that Amokolia has already found a new and sustainable home.
1. The initial complaint was posted publicly by Daniel Kalirion in Amokolia last October. A month later it was repeated, as no response had forthcome from anyone. A week after that, Lord Dundas, your Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, encouraged Mr Kalirion to suggest any plans or proposals that he might have had in mind for Amokolia, as Victoria had "seriously died". The initial plan was to be a parallel union to the Bastion Union, comprising Elwynn, Amokolia, and Hurmu for a start. Lord Dundas believed that wasn't such a bad idea, but was concerned about future red tape occurring, and suggested a unified MP system for both Amokolia and Victoria as an alternative. Nothing further then happened for another month, until Mr Kalirion issued the declaration of independence, based on the same grounds as the original complaint.
2. Your 2009 treaty of annexation of Amokolia includes a number of articles, which, by virtue of the grounds of the original complaint, the admissions of both Lord Dundas and your Royal Majesty, and the description of Amokolia's state in recent months above by Mr Scott Alexander, have clearly not been fulfilled after a reasonable period of time , nor would it seem, that Victoria has ever been in a position to. Therefore, any reasonable person would consider the treaty by now to be null and void, as Mr Kalirion apparently realised four months ago.
We understand that the people of Amokolia are resolved that Victoria has failed to keep its part of the treaty of annexation, and that consequently sufficient notice of succession was given, and that their right to self-determination has been appropriately exercised. We are also satisfied that the people of Elwynn did unanimously approve the wish of the Amokolians to join them, and are pleased to report that this has already resulted in the return of formerly absent Amokolians. If they are willing to do so under the circumstances, then we can safely assure you that Amokolia has already found a new and sustainable home.
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Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
In the name of all sane, Amokolian, and just, I return.
As the founder of Amokolia I feel a need to return to my homeland. For the last six months or so I have been checking the Victorian forums for any signs of life, and I did see life, at least, in penis enlargement pills. That being said, as stated before, Victoria is a dead nation and the fact that His Majesty has most graciously returned just for the occasion is despicable. The Kingdom of Victoria is in a state of disrepair. Bjorn, His Majesty, and Guido have let it die. Victoria's former claims for land were merited, but as a nation declines, its claims die, and its authority and respectability is left out to dry. Victoria's claims should not be recognized. One may say though, Amokolia is part of Victoria and should die and go away with it. This is not true! Amokolia, as what I saw, was declared independent without objection by the Amokolian people. Most graciously, Daniel took Amokolia into Elwynn, and from what I've seen, has done an excellent job with the equality and handling of the Amokolian merger with Elwynn. Not only are Elwynn and Amokolia neighbors, most of our culture is markedly similar, and with that, the self-determination of a people should be recognized! Amokolia is not pseudo-english (like Victoria) in any way, shape, or form. Amokolia would definitely benefit more as a functioning part of Elwynn as opposed to an oppressed people of the (dead) Kingdom of Victoria. If anyone truly cares about Amokolia, they would recognize the Elwynnese claim to her and the support from other Benacian micronations. The Amokolian people approved the annexation. Victoria is dead. Vivë Amokolië et vivë Elwijnië!
(if you doubt it's the real me, feel free to send me an IM)
As the founder of Amokolia I feel a need to return to my homeland. For the last six months or so I have been checking the Victorian forums for any signs of life, and I did see life, at least, in penis enlargement pills. That being said, as stated before, Victoria is a dead nation and the fact that His Majesty has most graciously returned just for the occasion is despicable. The Kingdom of Victoria is in a state of disrepair. Bjorn, His Majesty, and Guido have let it die. Victoria's former claims for land were merited, but as a nation declines, its claims die, and its authority and respectability is left out to dry. Victoria's claims should not be recognized. One may say though, Amokolia is part of Victoria and should die and go away with it. This is not true! Amokolia, as what I saw, was declared independent without objection by the Amokolian people. Most graciously, Daniel took Amokolia into Elwynn, and from what I've seen, has done an excellent job with the equality and handling of the Amokolian merger with Elwynn. Not only are Elwynn and Amokolia neighbors, most of our culture is markedly similar, and with that, the self-determination of a people should be recognized! Amokolia is not pseudo-english (like Victoria) in any way, shape, or form. Amokolia would definitely benefit more as a functioning part of Elwynn as opposed to an oppressed people of the (dead) Kingdom of Victoria. If anyone truly cares about Amokolia, they would recognize the Elwynnese claim to her and the support from other Benacian micronations. The Amokolian people approved the annexation. Victoria is dead. Vivë Amokolië et vivë Elwijnië!
(if you doubt it's the real me, feel free to send me an IM)
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Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
I don't doubt you're back, especially with this going-on, but you didn't have to create a new accountJess Heimer wrote:(if you doubt it's the real me, feel free to send me an IM)
Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
Hi, Jess!
Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
My goodness, Amokolia gets passed around like a bong at a reggae concert...
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Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
I resent any accusation that I let it die. Kieran did one of his regular disappearing acts, came back, completely revamped the forum again (without and discussion or explanation) and then disappeared again. There is very little I can do in such circumstances.
Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
Do not think I am not well aware of all the issues at point, Iain.siriain wrote:Your Majesty, I am sure that we are all grateful that you have taken the time and trouble to respond to this issue here. However, I would like to take the liberty of drawing your attention to a number of points of which you ought to be aware:
1. The initial complaint was posted publicly by Daniel Kalirion in Amokolia last October. A month later it was repeated, as no response had forthcome from anyone. A week after that, Lord Dundas, your Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, encouraged Mr Kalirion to suggest any plans or proposals that he might have had in mind for Amokolia, as Victoria had "seriously died". The initial plan was to be a parallel union to the Bastion Union, comprising Elwynn, Amokolia, and Hurmu for a start. Lord Dundas believed that wasn't such a bad idea, but was concerned about future red tape occurring, and suggested a unified MP system for both Amokolia and Victoria as an alternative. Nothing further then happened for another month, until Mr Kalirion issued the declaration of independence, based on the same grounds as the original complaint.
2. Your 2009 treaty of annexation of Amokolia includes a number of articles, which, by virtue of the grounds of the original complaint, the admissions of both Lord Dundas and your Royal Majesty, and the description of Amokolia's state in recent months above by Mr Scott Alexander, have clearly not been fulfilled after a reasonable period of time , nor would it seem, that Victoria has ever been in a position to. Therefore, any reasonable person would consider the treaty by now to be null and void, as Mr Kalirion apparently realised four months ago.
We understand that the people of Amokolia are resolved that Victoria has failed to keep its part of the treaty of annexation, and that consequently sufficient notice of succession was given, and that their right to self-determination has been appropriately exercised. We are also satisfied that the people of Elwynn did unanimously approve the wish of the Amokolians to join them, and are pleased to report that this has already resulted in the return of formerly absent Amokolians. If they are willing to do so under the circumstances, then we can safely assure you that Amokolia has already found a new and sustainable home.
1. Any plans as Lord Dundas stated were subject to my approval. As you can tell that is not forthcoming. I will not relinquish Amokolia from its bond until I see credible and sustainable plans presented to myself which show Amokolia can go somewhere else and succeed.
2. Treaties are not voided in the manner in which you speak. Article One of the 2009 treaty places all rights to Amokolian territory and Amokolia in general in my Government and therefore in my position. I will exercise them as I see fit. Amokolia ceased to be a micronation upon accession as Dominion and any rights Jess Heimer has over Amokolia cease according to the Treaty.
Understand what you will about the "people of amokolia", Mr. Iain, but I understand this first. The Kingdom of Victoria will not relinquish Amokolia on any terms but its own and those terms shall be that any nation which takes Amokolia's burden upon themselves shall take it upon them with a view to creating a sustainable Micronation that is not passed around constantly.
Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
I foresee war.
Hâlian, Magic: The Gathering player/baseball and gridiron fan/computer guy/conlinguist and worldbuilder/tabletop and video game fan too
Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
This is by far the WORST....WORST...no..no..WORST reason to go to war. I would urge Her Royal Majesty and the leaders of Elwynn to seek a diplomatic solution to this. We do not need a grudge war. I'd be more than happy to help with negotiations rather then let this be reduced to a grudge war.
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Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
Legalities aside, most micronationalists respect the will of a founder in regard to his/her intellectual property rights. Jess has stated that he believes Amokolia will prosper in Elwynn, that should satisfy your concern of keeping Amokolia stable.Understand what you will about the "people of amokolia", Mr. Iain, but I understand this first. The Kingdom of Victoria will not relinquish Amokolia on any terms but its own and those terms shall be that any nation which takes Amokolia's burden upon themselves shall take it upon them with a view to creating a sustainable Micronation that is not passed around constantly.
And with all due respect, Victoria didn't know how to keep Amokolia stable, and Victoria itself is dead, so how can you be a good judge of "creating a sustainable Micronation?"
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Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
From what I've been told, Jess claimed everytime he gave Amokolia to someone that it would prosper and it instead becomes a millstone. We offer to help and then we face obstinacy from Jess who refused nearly all our initiatives so much that we eventually had to appoint someone else as our prefered Governor (Jean Beaumont) because he was willing to work with us rather than against us at every turn.
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Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
What a thread to make an introduction in, but, I wonder if the problem here is that quite a few people here seem to have a connection to Elwynn? I mean, I tend to agree with Queen Victoria's point, the treaty did transfer the sovereignty of Amokolia over to Victoria (whatever the activity level of it may be) and so, just because one person stands up and claims the land in the middle of inactivity doesn't necessarily mean that it can just be taken away. This is especially so if the whole point of this exercise seems to be just to add it to a micronation which isn't necessarily the beacon of activity itself. I think common sense dictates that neither Amokolia itself nor Elwynn should receive any or all of that land until the status of Victoria is confirmed. And, I haven't yet seen it removed from the map, despite arguments over its activity, which I suppose would mean Victoria still has a right to it according the procedures we follow.
I, and Stormark, also join the King of Normark's willingness to broker a peaceful diplomatic deal if negotiations were to be a possibility to settle this outside of normal MCS procedure.
I, and Stormark, also join the King of Normark's willingness to broker a peaceful diplomatic deal if negotiations were to be a possibility to settle this outside of normal MCS procedure.
Galinn Karisson,
High Justiciar of the High Realm of Stormark
High Justiciar of the High Realm of Stormark
Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
If you would like to negotiate, along with Mr. Karisson, the Kingdom of Victoria will be willing to listen.Einhorn wrote:This is by far the WORST....WORST...no..no..WORST reason to go to war. I would urge Her Royal Majesty and the leaders of Elwynn to seek a diplomatic solution to this. We do not need a grudge war. I'd be more than happy to help with negotiations rather then let this be reduced to a grudge war.
Alternatively, it is our plan and if that fails then they can attempt to war with us. Whether we accept the invitation to fight for Amokolia is a different matter.
Re: [Amokolia] Annexation by Elwynn
@Craitman/Spangle/Whomever sees this and has admin powers - Please split this off into its own topic beginning with this post.
It is obvious what the complaints are, so I will not trouble people with attempting to write a formal declaration of grievances. However, I will ask that Her Royal Majesty, Sir Iain and Jess create a list of concessions they'd like from one another. I think it obvious what they are but these need to be put in plain language more than anything. I urge those involve to make the list realistic with regards to the fact that while we may all get our cake, we will not be able to eat all of it.
Once we get that out of the way we can begin seeing if we cannot get this worked out peacefully. With these concessions in mind we can draft a proper treaty between the nations. I am going to assume that Victoria just wishes to facilitate the secession of Amokolia in a more official way, rather than the rather unofficial channels that were actually used. Please correct me if this is wrong.
It is obvious what the complaints are, so I will not trouble people with attempting to write a formal declaration of grievances. However, I will ask that Her Royal Majesty, Sir Iain and Jess create a list of concessions they'd like from one another. I think it obvious what they are but these need to be put in plain language more than anything. I urge those involve to make the list realistic with regards to the fact that while we may all get our cake, we will not be able to eat all of it.
Once we get that out of the way we can begin seeing if we cannot get this worked out peacefully. With these concessions in mind we can draft a proper treaty between the nations. I am going to assume that Victoria just wishes to facilitate the secession of Amokolia in a more official way, rather than the rather unofficial channels that were actually used. Please correct me if this is wrong.
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