Hub.mn

MCS Change Request Form (Expansions/Modifications)

Name & Title: Harald Freyjugjöf the Generous Giver of the House of the Descendants of Freyja
High King of Stormark
Sovereign Lord on all Continents

E-Mail/Contact: PM

Nation: The High Realm of Stormark

Request:



Notes:

The High Realm of Stormark wishes to promote international maritime trade and tourism to the Inner Sea by means of the Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio, which shall run between the Sicilian port cities of Castellamare del Golfo and Cefalù.

The canal is named after one of the Jarldom of Sicilia's most famous sons, the Italo-Norman Knight Tancredo d'Adraisio.

Southbatavia claims the same land. We were still working on the claim when we saw this, I will present a map soon.

Name & Title: Mordechai ben Erasmus, Grand Duke of Southbatavia
E-Mail/Contact: PM
Nation: Southbatavia / Batavia

Not to mention that this claim destroys any chance for south Batavia to expand in a way that its territory is contiguous. If Stormark wants to claim unclaimed land, do it elsewhere. The Red Antilles has unclaimed land, so has Tapfer and Corum -- all continents where Stormark borders unclaimed territory.

I'll leave this for now to see if you can agree on it between you

Shireroth, fearing for the stability of the Cibolan continent already fraught by issues between Zuidbatavie and Alexandria, offers to mediate between the two parties to see this matter solved amicably, with due consideration to the wishes of both sides.

I'm not too sure about that but it wouldn't hurt to try.

The last thing I heard, no nation had the 'right' according to the MCS to hold contiguous territory.

Stormark filed the claim first, and given that they have the highest activity in the Sector according to the most recent logs, I don't see why there can be objections to this on that basis.

What prevented Southbatavia from claiming beforehand?

If you like Alexandria can enforce treaty rights over those lands which technically give us first preference? Just to stir the pot (this is an unofficial statement)

Maximos wrote:The last thing I heard, no nation had the 'right' according to the MCS to hold contiguous territory.

Stormark filed the claim first, and given that they have the highest activity in the Sector according to the most recent logs, I don't see why there can be objections to this on that basis.

What prevented Southbatavia from claiming beforehand?

There is no MCS legal right to it. But it is a moral right in some circumstances. The Council has many times considered a claim that cuts off another country from potentially expanding, especially if the claiming state is large (like Stormark) and the country cut off is small or smaller (like South Batavia). Again, I reiterate that did Stormark wish to claim for the sake of expanding its territory, it had potential to do so on almost every single continent without cutting off smaller countries. But it chose to provoke South Batavia by cutting off all its potentials of a contiguous claim.

As to activity, perhaps. But of all other Micran states, Batavia is the next active. For my own sake, Stormark already has enough land as it is. Let it use the land it has instead of trying to provoke its neighbours to anger and rage.

The Kaiser of Shireroth has been gracious enough to invite South Batavia and Stormark to mediate the issue. South Batavia has agreed to it. Stormark has yet not. South Batavia is open to discussion and compromise. Let Stormark show the world that she is too.

That coming from a Government that threatened war against Alexandria if it's demands we're not met? We all know how open to compromise and discussion the Grand Duke of South Batavia is.

I love this stuff sometimes, I really do. But also, as to the moral right, dodgy ground for the MCS to be issuing moral judgments on land claims. In the same vein that the Burger of Barbary cries foul that Stormark could have claimed anywhere, so could South Batavia. It's not as if Stormark has no interests the area already.

With all due respect to our friends in Stormark, Batavia and Alexandria, I find some of the arguments being raised in this thread disturbing. Amid all the clamour about your conflicting national interests, have any of you stopped to consider how a territorial food frenzy in southern Cibola might affect smaller states in the area? How it might limit their "right" to future expansion (not that I necessarily believe that such a right even exists)?

The large countries of Micras already occupy the lion's share of the planet, maintaining huge empires that are often, compared to smaller states, disproportionately massive to their actual activity levels. Speaking as the head of one such smaller state, I have always tried to keep my territorial hunger within reasonable bounds and I am saddened to say that disputes such as this make me question the wisdom of that policy.

I sincerely hope that this dispute will be solved peacefully and in such a way that no nation on Cibola will be left disadvantaged.

Lord_Montague wrote:That coming from a Government that threatened war against Alexandria if it's demands we're not met? We all know how open to compromise and discussion the Grand Duke of South Batavia is.

You mean that the government threatened with war if your nation would enter its territorial waters (the Strait of Barbarije) without permission. That's a big difference with what you're saying.

Not really your territorial waters though Jonas...well yet anyway.

Lord_Montague wrote:Not really your territorial waters though Jonas...well yet anyway.

Indeed. Not mine, but Southbatavian waters.