[Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Okay, let me try to get this right. I am not doing this to antagonize anyone - it seems everyone is at each other's throats over this:
1. Stormark files a claim to a piece of land in Cibola south of Southbatavia.
2. Southbatavia files for a claim letting the MCS know it is independent after Stormark's claim.
3. Neither claim comes into conflict from what I can see.
4. Southbatavia said soon after the claim was made by Stormark that it intended to claim the same area. They file a claim a day after, still does not include the alleged conflicting claim.
Is it "Empty Chair" Clint Eastwood filing claims or what? LOL. Like His Majesty the Emperor of Sangun has stated - a lot of the claims that are being made here are very disturbing. "Moral" claim? Since when has that been policy at all at the MCS? "Oh, you can't expand here because I might expand there in the future, who knows..." I have been a micronationalist for God knows how long and that has never been policy or anything. I'm having a hard time understanding how Southbatavia alleges that this is against their claim and how it hurts them. This is getting a little bit out of hand.
1. Stormark files a claim to a piece of land in Cibola south of Southbatavia.
2. Southbatavia files for a claim letting the MCS know it is independent after Stormark's claim.
3. Neither claim comes into conflict from what I can see.
4. Southbatavia said soon after the claim was made by Stormark that it intended to claim the same area. They file a claim a day after, still does not include the alleged conflicting claim.
Is it "Empty Chair" Clint Eastwood filing claims or what? LOL. Like His Majesty the Emperor of Sangun has stated - a lot of the claims that are being made here are very disturbing. "Moral" claim? Since when has that been policy at all at the MCS? "Oh, you can't expand here because I might expand there in the future, who knows..." I have been a micronationalist for God knows how long and that has never been policy or anything. I'm having a hard time understanding how Southbatavia alleges that this is against their claim and how it hurts them. This is getting a little bit out of hand.
http://www.empireofthealexandrians.org/ ... wtopic=621Lord_Montague wrote:If you like Alexandria can enforce treaty rights over those lands which technically give us first preference? Just to stir the pot (this is an unofficial statement)
Last edited by Edgard on Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
EDGARD
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
What HIM said.
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Seeing as this doesn't actually clash with anything (which was my reasoning for not moving it to voting), I'll put this in the Council now
Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Have you ever heard the phrase "the dick move"? If you could only expand one way, and someone blocked you off, I'm sure you would consider it "the dick move". I'm certain this wasn't an intention of Stormark when they made the claim so hopefully when all parties are brought round the negotiation table, a happy settlement can be reached quite quickly, one both points of view are understood.Emperor Edgard II wrote:Like His Majesty the Emperor of Sangun has stated - a lot of the claims that are being made here are very disturbing. "Moral" claim? Since when has that been policy at all at the MCS? "Oh, you can't expand here because I might expand there in the future, who knows..." I have been a micronationalist for God knows how long and that has never been policy or anything. I'm having a hard time understanding how Southbatavia alleges that this is against their claim and how it hurts them. This is getting a little bit out of hand.
Formerly His Imperial Niftiness Yardistanislaus du Grifos, former Kaiser of Shireroth
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
And closing a waterway to international movement was perfectly undickish?
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
LOL, is that what we're gonna call it, "the dick move"? There's the rest of the map for them to expand to. Alexandria has possessions all over, so does Babhka (even though we prevent them from owning "their continent"), etc. In fact, Southbatavia's new claim includes a claim that is outside of their metropolitan territory. A lot of nations manage to expand beyond their metropolitan territory - Great Britain, France, the US, etc... Boy, I wish the "Dick Move" Rule was around when I started, because I remember getting blocked left and right many times since then on the MCS and guess what? I just expanded elsewhere. No big whoop. (And I don't know if you saw their claim, but they seem perfectly content expanding elsewhere.)Kaiser Stan I wrote:Have you ever heard the phrase "the dick move"? If you could only expand one way, and someone blocked you off, I'm sure you would consider it "the dick move". I'm certain this wasn't an intention of Stormark when they made the claim so hopefully when all parties are brought round the negotiation table, a happy settlement can be reached quite quickly, one both points of view are understood.Emperor Edgard II wrote:Like His Majesty the Emperor of Sangun has stated - a lot of the claims that are being made here are very disturbing. "Moral" claim? Since when has that been policy at all at the MCS? "Oh, you can't expand here because I might expand there in the future, who knows..." I have been a micronationalist for God knows how long and that has never been policy or anything. I'm having a hard time understanding how Southbatavia alleges that this is against their claim and how it hurts them. This is getting a little bit out of hand.
And do you wanna know what a real "dick move" is? Closing a strait that was always informally considered international waters for the years that Alexandria and Stormark have been on Cibola out of the blue and using rape analogies to excuse it a la Todd Akin.
Last edited by Edgard on Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
I'm not interested in a long-winded internet argument, but all I would say is that I guess times have changed since Madland was founded. Blocking someone because someone else blocked you is quite immature. Anyway, the whole colonial thing can be interesting but it's not for everyone. It suits Viking civilisation, for example, but will it suit the Jingdao culture? It's just limiting their options and since there's already so much bad blood in that big internal bay of Cibola, it might be good if one or two neighbours had positive relations!
Formerly His Imperial Niftiness Yardistanislaus du Grifos, former Kaiser of Shireroth
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
I apologize, as I did not want to make this into a long-winded argument either. I share your hope for a resolution that is peaceful and satisfies everyone.
Last edited by Edgard on Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Thank you for the apology and I'm sorry if I antagonised you personally- this is a delicate situation for everyone involved, there is frustration on both sides from background disputes. I'm glad we're all in agreement that this should come to a peaceful solution. At the moment, we are waiting on a comment from the Viking Empire of Stormark before we can get started on a resolution to this argument.
Formerly His Imperial Niftiness Yardistanislaus du Grifos, former Kaiser of Shireroth
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
No worries. There is a lot of frustration, yes, but I hope that maybe cooler heads will prevail and an agreement will be reached.
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
OK. Where would you like to start? And it is the High Realm of Stormark.Kaiser Stan I wrote:Thank you for the apology and I'm sorry if I antagonised you personally- this is a delicate situation for everyone involved, there is frustration on both sides from background disputes. I'm glad we're all in agreement that this should come to a peaceful solution. At the moment, we are waiting on a comment from the Viking Empire of Stormark before we can get started on a resolution to this argument.
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Exactly.Emperor Edgard II wrote:No worries. There is a lot of frustration, yes, but I hope that maybe cooler heads will prevail and an agreement will be reached.
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Craitman,
Could you put this claim on hold?
Could you put this claim on hold?
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Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Certainly. ON HOLD...
Re: [Stormark] Canale di Tancredo d'Adraisio
Apologies, High King. I'm used to writing "vikings.invisionzone" into my search bar.
Stormark has claimed this territory, with the purpose of encouraging tourism and international trade in the Inner Sea. The objection from Southbatavia (very recently independent, yet to be recognised by the MCS) is that this prevents them from expanding naturally. Their only other border is with Alexandria, who is unlikely to move. There is no denying that Stormark deserves this land. If you're sceptical, visit: they're very active and highly developed, both as a state and as a culture. Each subdivision or Jarldom has its own distinct culture and unique identifying marks. And hence the name of this newly claimed territory and the cities to be founded.
Together we can reach an amicable solution.
The first point to be emphasised is that in making this claim, no mistake must be made that Zuidbatavie really is being hampered in. It's the character of the claim that I think is found galling- it's a strip that forms a roadblock to further natural contiguous expansion. I hope the High Realm can recognise this.
The second is that Stormark has legitimately claimed this unclaimed territory and no amount of national aspiration can trump that. In many a case, claims conflict and nations are frustruated. Stormark must not be viewed as a wrongdoer, although their legal behaviour has clearly upset Southbatavia.
I hope representatives from both nations can accept these premises. From there, I propose the following solution:
-Southbatavia allows absolute freedom of passage for Stormarkian trading and tourism in the strait.
-The Stormarkian city of Castellamare del Golfo be founded just to the south of the current Southbatavia border (of the region of Canton of Barbarije) without protruding further inland.
-The Canale be allowed to exist across Southbatavian territory and run across the border to the newly-marked settlement of Cefalù.
Does Southbatavia oppose these liberties for Stormarkian ships and caravans? Does Stormark feel it legitimately needs to claim more territory on Cibola?
Stormark has claimed this territory, with the purpose of encouraging tourism and international trade in the Inner Sea. The objection from Southbatavia (very recently independent, yet to be recognised by the MCS) is that this prevents them from expanding naturally. Their only other border is with Alexandria, who is unlikely to move. There is no denying that Stormark deserves this land. If you're sceptical, visit: they're very active and highly developed, both as a state and as a culture. Each subdivision or Jarldom has its own distinct culture and unique identifying marks. And hence the name of this newly claimed territory and the cities to be founded.
Together we can reach an amicable solution.
The first point to be emphasised is that in making this claim, no mistake must be made that Zuidbatavie really is being hampered in. It's the character of the claim that I think is found galling- it's a strip that forms a roadblock to further natural contiguous expansion. I hope the High Realm can recognise this.
The second is that Stormark has legitimately claimed this unclaimed territory and no amount of national aspiration can trump that. In many a case, claims conflict and nations are frustruated. Stormark must not be viewed as a wrongdoer, although their legal behaviour has clearly upset Southbatavia.
I hope representatives from both nations can accept these premises. From there, I propose the following solution:
-Southbatavia allows absolute freedom of passage for Stormarkian trading and tourism in the strait.
-The Stormarkian city of Castellamare del Golfo be founded just to the south of the current Southbatavia border (of the region of Canton of Barbarije) without protruding further inland.
-The Canale be allowed to exist across Southbatavian territory and run across the border to the newly-marked settlement of Cefalù.
Does Southbatavia oppose these liberties for Stormarkian ships and caravans? Does Stormark feel it legitimately needs to claim more territory on Cibola?
Formerly His Imperial Niftiness Yardistanislaus du Grifos, former Kaiser of Shireroth
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla