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[VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:31 am
by Jack
Okay, originally I envisioned the Verionist Republic and the Iron Company lands to continue to have the Shirithian colour, for the sake of intentional ambiguity. However, recent developments have forced my hand so now I would like for this vulture to be officially represented on the claimsmap.

Name & Title: Kaiser Verion II
E-Mail/Contact: Love and peace
Nation: Verionist Republic (confederation of the Imperial Verionist Republic of Shireroth and the Iron Company territory of Elsenar)
No. of Citizens:
MN URL: https://micras.org/wiki/index.php?title ... _Shireroth / https://shireroth.org/shirewiki/Imperia ... on_Company
Flag Image:Image
Claim:Image
Notes: Both parts are old enough to claim.

NB: I apologise for failing to include a capital, it should be Chryste.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:13 pm
by Edgard
Kindly asking that the parts that overlap with the current claim of Ransenar be marked as disputed.

I do not have any gripes with this, admittedly Jack got to the claim before me. I didn't lay direct claim to Elsenar from the beginning to allow for Jack (I listed it as claim but not under actual control so there could be some fun tensions, much like the Verionists claim all of Shireroth but will never get it, etc etc.).

I do wish that the parts that conflict with my claim be marked as conflicted, like with other similar situations in the Kalirion Fracture.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:28 pm
by Jack
Arguably the entirety of Shireroth would then be disputed because the VER claims it.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:46 pm
by Edgard
But there are plenty of instances currently that are listed as disputed. How is this different from those?

Not trying to be difficult here. The Elsenar claims were marked as dead. I am only asking for disputed marking, and we can sort things out as part of the overall narrative?

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:58 pm
by Yastreb
Edgard wrote:But there are plenty of instances currently that are listed as disputed. How is this different from those?
The main difference is that Ransenar is not (yet) an MCS member state and would have no right to assert a disputation unless it were done explicitly through the auspices of Shireroth.

I agree it would have been better to work this out between yourselves beforehand.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
by Edgard
Yastreb wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:58 pm
Edgard wrote:But there are plenty of instances currently that are listed as disputed. How is this different from those?
The main difference is that Ransenar is not (yet) an MCS member state and would have no right to assert a disputation unless it were done explicitly through the auspices of Shireroth.

I agree it would have been better to work this out between yourselves beforehand.
Thank you for the clarification. I was under the impression this claim was not done under those auspices either, however. The Elsenar claim was marked as dead, officially, on the Vultures page on MicrasWiki.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:09 pm
by Edgard
No worries - I will allow Ransenar to die. I think this may be more trouble than I'm willing to put up with. Carry on!

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:35 pm
by Jack
We can work a comprehensive border update out whenever Ransenar appears on the map.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:01 pm
by Ric
The Shirerithian Regency said very early on that it would recognize the Verionists' sovereignty over their lands of control (Iron Company in Elsenar and associated lands there + Skyla) if the following conditions were met:

- No claim on the kaisership
- No claim on Shireroth
- No claim to be a continuation of Shireroth

Shireroth will honour that, provided Jack confirms those three points. The reason why the Verionists were not part of the Fracturing earlier was because they claimed all of Shireroth as an alternative country. The Shirerithian response on MCS would be only that new states that the Regency actually recognized as independent would be marked, as that is a necessity under MCS rules (as I understood them, as no one can claim my land without my consent).

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:04 pm
by Edgard
Edgard wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:09 pm
No worries - I will allow Ransenar to die. I think this may be more trouble than I'm willing to put up with. Carry on!
Recant this. :wink: :lol:

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:06 pm
by Jack
@Ric, the Regency's recognition is completely irrelevant for this claim.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:16 pm
by Senya
For the sake of aesthetics and readability of the map, marking the whole nation's territory would be unnecessary and would make the map harder to read. In my opinion, large scale in-sim disputes such as this which affect the entirety of a nation should not be marked as disputed.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:17 am
by Jack
Surely this can be resolved, but just to make a point: there are currently three "Shireroths" claiming to be the official successor of the Imperial Republic. Why is the MCS siding with one of these, and not maintaining neutrality? As far as I am concerned, the red territory is under the jurisdiction of Kaiser Verion II, and Ric has no say in it.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:16 am
by Yastreb
Jack wrote:Surely this can be resolved, but just to make a point: there are currently three "Shireroths" claiming to be the official successor of the Imperial Republic. Why is the MCS siding with one of these, and not maintaining neutrality? As far as I am concerned, the red territory is under the jurisdiction of Kaiser Verion II, and Ric has no say in it.
Two reasons mainly: Ric was the authorised representative of pre-fracture Shireroth in MCS affairs, and none of the other claimants have the same manifest control of Shireroth's webspace/narrative as he does. Verbally contesting his authority isn't enough to delegitimise him, you have to manifest your own authority through a sustained and supported campaign of the kind that the Verions' leverage of "Notably Dead" possessions hasn't really provided yet. Whether this is by a consensually-arranged narrative or some kind of Bijaro-style railroading is up to you, but the MCS isn't really an appropriate weapon in that fight; we just record the result.

Re: [VER] A Vulture's Claim

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:46 am
by Craitman
Jack wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:17 am
Why is the MCS siding with one of these, and not maintaining neutrality?
What Kras said, plus that status quo is usually our alignment when it comes to neutrality - hence why claims with tied votes don't get added. If we set a precedent that anyone can walk into a nation, call themselves its leader and represent them for MCS purposes, I'm sure none of us would be particularly happy!