Vyktory Free Press Special
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Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Jack is a right-wing nut, so no wonder there.
Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Please supply some evidence for your first statement.Benkern wrote:Jack, you've previously shown your lack of knowledge of a wide variety of topics, but your basic misunderstanding of depression really takes the biscuit. Depression is a disease, but as far as I can see you've got no excuse for your ignorance.
As for depression, it is a psychological problem but not a disease. There is no physical evidence for that claim, and no objective way to define depression. I think that in order to claim that something is a disease rather than just a psychological issue, you need to have both.
Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.
Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Psychological diseases are due to anomalies in the physical brain. Or are you trying to claim that the psyche is separate from the brain?
"MRI scans of patients with depression have revealed a number of differences in brain structure compared to those who are not depressed. Meta-analyses of neuroimaging studies in major depression reported that, compared to controls, depressed patients had increased volume of the lateral ventricles and adrenal gland and smaller volumes of the basal ganglia, thalamus, hippocampus, and frontal lobe (including the orbitofrontal cortex and gyrus rectus). Hyperintensities have been associated with patients with a late age of onset, and have led to the development of the theory of vascular depression."
Wow, you're just pulling bullshit out of your ass, hey Jack?
"MRI scans of patients with depression have revealed a number of differences in brain structure compared to those who are not depressed. Meta-analyses of neuroimaging studies in major depression reported that, compared to controls, depressed patients had increased volume of the lateral ventricles and adrenal gland and smaller volumes of the basal ganglia, thalamus, hippocampus, and frontal lobe (including the orbitofrontal cortex and gyrus rectus). Hyperintensities have been associated with patients with a late age of onset, and have led to the development of the theory of vascular depression."
Wow, you're just pulling bullshit out of your ass, hey Jack?
Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
I think I speak for more people than myself when I say that if there is one thing I don't want to see become common-place, it's not people wanting support from the community, but people showing a complete lack of understanding towards others.
If there is one thing that's not needed right now, it's people making things harder for someone who is struggling through a hard time. If you don't like it, let them be. Some other members of the community are more than happy to give people a hand as they are part of our community.
On another note, opening up is a big part of recognising that something can be done and a good way to get support. Some people will make things difficult, but the rest of us are here and I'm sure some of us know how it is to go through difficult times, or have had close friends who have gone through them too. If there is a way I can help, through creating joint projects and giving something extra to your country (which I know you clearly care about), let me know.
It's a shame that some people don't understand, but as a society we are making progress!
Aside from your MRI scan thing being totally incorrect, you miss the point. Depression is a serious killer to those who have it, as are a lot of psychological diseases. If someone has something which threatens their life, I'm not going to go around saying "you sound dangerous" but instead give them a bit of support. If you don't want to give them support, then don't comment.So yes, here is the crucial difference between depression and cancer. Cancer is a process that happens inside the body, without anything the person suffering from it can do. Depression is not. In fact, depression is not even a disease. If a depressed person undergoes an MRI, nothing shows up.
If there is one thing that's not needed right now, it's people making things harder for someone who is struggling through a hard time. If you don't like it, let them be. Some other members of the community are more than happy to give people a hand as they are part of our community.
On another note, opening up is a big part of recognising that something can be done and a good way to get support. Some people will make things difficult, but the rest of us are here and I'm sure some of us know how it is to go through difficult times, or have had close friends who have gone through them too. If there is a way I can help, through creating joint projects and giving something extra to your country (which I know you clearly care about), let me know.
It's a shame that some people don't understand, but as a society we are making progress!
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Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Really? The most important part of this discussion seems to go about the question that depression is a disease or not? I honestly wouldn't care if it's a disease or whatever. Simple fact is that it's a problem for those have it (and those around him).
So what if the guy writes a post about it? So what if people here start to care (or at least pretend to). Or so what if you just ignore it like a lot of the crap that we get thrown in our face? At least this guy isn't saying it's everyone's fault, like a lot of others do.
Don't get me wrong: my first impression was that it was once again someone who wanted to get some attention (and please, before you attack me: the impression). And yes, I found certain aspects in the letter very disturbing (the $12,000 damage and what happened with his mother). I know enough of people with depression and honestly can't find it in me to feel anything beyond the 'ooo... okay, so that's how it is'-feeling for someone I don't know. But if others want to show support, who am I to stop them (I even think it's good that there are people who seem to be able to show more compassion for something like this than I do )?
That said: James, I hope you can find a way (or different ways) to find the help you need (not necessarily through an expensive shrink, but most of all with support of your surroundings).
So what if the guy writes a post about it? So what if people here start to care (or at least pretend to). Or so what if you just ignore it like a lot of the crap that we get thrown in our face? At least this guy isn't saying it's everyone's fault, like a lot of others do.
Don't get me wrong: my first impression was that it was once again someone who wanted to get some attention (and please, before you attack me: the impression). And yes, I found certain aspects in the letter very disturbing (the $12,000 damage and what happened with his mother). I know enough of people with depression and honestly can't find it in me to feel anything beyond the 'ooo... okay, so that's how it is'-feeling for someone I don't know. But if others want to show support, who am I to stop them (I even think it's good that there are people who seem to be able to show more compassion for something like this than I do )?
That said: James, I hope you can find a way (or different ways) to find the help you need (not necessarily through an expensive shrink, but most of all with support of your surroundings).
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Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
This is a chicken and egg type of story, are those (relatively small, read the actual research linked to it) differences the cause of depression? That's absolutely not proven.Malliki wrote:Something from wikipedia
Anyway, the whole point of that remark was to stress that depression is absolutely different from cancer, because the person who has it can actually change it. Unless you are an absolute materialistic determinist who doesn't belief in personal responsibility, it seems to me that depression fundamentally differs from cancer.
Another think I wanted to point out is that being depressed doesn't somehow make James less responsible for the fact that he came close to killing his mother and went on destructive rampages. Do we need to treat someone who commits those acts as a victim because he claims to be depressed? I don't think so. This is the discussion I think should be had here.
I don't like your lack of understanding towards the mother of this guy, or towards others who have to be around him. I vehemenently dislike the victimisation of people who commit wrongdoings simply because they claim to have a mental disorder.Lewis wrote:I think I speak for more people than myself when I say that if there is one thing I don't want to see become common-place, it's not people wanting support from the community, but people showing a complete lack of understanding towards others.
No, lack of responsibility is a serious killer. How does depression justify ridiculous behaviour? It doesn't. By describing James as someone who sounds dangerous and very much unpleasant, I think I just give a clear description of the guy, based upon his own information.Aside from your MRI scan thing being totally incorrect, you miss the point. Depression is a serious killer to those who have it, as are a lot of psychological diseases. If someone has something which threatens their life, I'm not going to go around saying "you sound dangerous" but instead give them a bit of support. If you don't want to give them support, then don't comment.
Also, you don't get to decide when or what I should comment on a public forum. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to say it. I personally hate your weak approach, but I don't mind you saying what you think.
Sometimes people need to be told to man the fuck up, and that's what I am doing right now. I think that pointing out to people that they are responsible for themselves may very well be more helpful than just support them in their destructive thinking pattern.If there is one thing that's not needed right now, it's people making things harder for someone who is struggling through a hard time. If you don't like it, let them be. Some other members of the community are more than happy to give people a hand as they are part of our community.
On another note, opening up is a big part of recognising that something can be done and a good way to get support. Some people will make things difficult, but the rest of us are here and I'm sure some of us know how it is to go through difficult times, or have had close friends who have gone through them too. If there is a way I can help, through creating joint projects and giving something extra to your country (which I know you clearly care about), let me know.
We're making so much progress that there are now 10 times as many people with depression than in 1950. We're creating a society where weakness is not only accepted but encouraged and actively supported. Responsibility is a forgotten word and dependency has become the norm, hallelujah.It's a shame that some people don't understand, but as a society we are making progress!
Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.
Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Erm, let me skip all over that shit to nicer words... I hope you feel better soon, and that you honor your life as a gift not to be wasted so needlessly. This is the weird part where I don't want to be personal, but I will be... let's just, whatever. Consider reading something Russian. Let me explain. I've known people close to me that were affected by Seasonal Activated Depression, and what they do is read something Russian. Could be, idk, a novel, a poem, a short story, play, whatever. Start with Pushkin. My friend says that this coming winter he has a bunch of Dostoyevsky for the "hibernation", as he calls it. Those guys lived trainwreck lives, and they did it in an area of the world where it's tomb-like winter. They didn't write happy stuff. But I always thought that they did sling some defiant wordbricks at the glass of darkness, as if they were out to tame their demons. It's like saying to their own madness and sadness, "I OWN you, you're merely renting space in my mind and soul, I'm gonna give you a roommate called CRIME AND PUNISHMENT, biatch." Remind the depression that you have access to ancient, arctic gloom-blasts, and that if you can't make it leave your head, you can pretty much scare it to shit into... well, being a polite guest? Oh, and get off these boards and talk to humans. Exercise. And take your vitamins.
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Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Jack, at least I base my views on research, instead of pulling it from my ass like you do. And depression is a disease that usually requires therapy and/or medication, so your patronizing call to "man the fuck up" is pathetic at best.
Another question, what is wrong with being weak?
Another question, what is wrong with being weak?
Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Sometimes people need to be told to man the fuck up, and that's what I am doing right now.
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/depression ... ction.aspx
I suppose those are just medical professionals with "degrees" and all they say are nullified because their highly expensive, and life saving, careers are paid for by the state. Your views are an example of what is still wrong in society, and why people feel they can't be open about their mental health.Some people still think that depression is trivial and not a genuine health condition. They're wrong. Depression is a real illness with real symptoms, and it's not a sign of weakness or something you can "snap out of" by "pulling yourself together".
As much as I'd love to debate this with you, I will stop this and let people give their comfort to the person and offer them support. Facing your problems, being open and getting help from others is a great step in helping people get better and make it manageable. Shouting them down won't. That's the last I'm saying on this matter.
Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
Jack, I normally get along with you, but this is one instance where you need to shut the fuck up.
I lost my brother-in-law to suicide. It's not a joke, and it has nothing to do with "manning up". I'm impressed that James has opened up about his struggles, and that he is brave enough to speak openly about it. The negative stigma that silences people who would otherwise speak up about suicide is part of why it remains so prevalent and why help is so minimal for those who need it. Those who struggle with suicide need support, and the ability to feel they can express their demons without being judged - they do NOT need patronizing, insulting statements from ignorant people.
I lost my brother-in-law to suicide. It's not a joke, and it has nothing to do with "manning up". I'm impressed that James has opened up about his struggles, and that he is brave enough to speak openly about it. The negative stigma that silences people who would otherwise speak up about suicide is part of why it remains so prevalent and why help is so minimal for those who need it. Those who struggle with suicide need support, and the ability to feel they can express their demons without being judged - they do NOT need patronizing, insulting statements from ignorant people.
Re: Vyktory Free Press Special
I perfectly understand that depression is a serious problem, as I stated before. I just don't think you can compare it to cancer. The main point I was trying to make, and is deliberately ignored by those opposing me, is that depression is a mental problem that doesn't exclude personal responsibility. I understand that just telling someone to man up doesn't necessarily make things better, however, it might very well be helpful when people who are depressed understand that they can help themselves as well by at least trying.Orion wrote:Jack, I normally get along with you, but this is one instance where you need to shut the fuck up.
I lost my brother-in-law to suicide. It's not a joke, and it has nothing to do with "manning up". I'm impressed that James has opened up about his struggles, and that he is brave enough to speak openly about it. The negative stigma that silences people who would otherwise speak up about suicide is part of why it remains so prevalent and why help is so minimal for those who need it. Those who struggle with suicide need support, and the ability to feel they can express their demons without being judged - they do NOT need patronizing, insulting statements from ignorant people.
The problem I have with the approach of others here is that they immediately tread James as a helpless victim, who needs 'support' and 'understanding'. And how important that might be, I think that still James needs to be treated as a responsible human being. If a depressed person behaves violently, it's still his own fault. I think it's only fair to say that.
I belief that those who are treated as responsible people will benefit more than those who are treated as helpless victims, being excused from their responsibility because of their state of mind.
Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.