[New forum] Website
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- chrimigules
- Posts: 1102
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Re: [New forum] Website
Seeing as the sustainability of the Sector as a whole may well rest on new micronationalists finding Hub.MN and learning about the hobby through it, is it possible to have a quite in-depth history of the Micran Sector in layman's terms and some FAQ's?
For example, the difference between simulationists and seccessionists, how to join a micronation, and so forth.
For example, the difference between simulationists and seccessionists, how to join a micronation, and so forth.
Re: [New forum] Website
I did mention writing a comprehensive FAQ as part of the website. I simply haven't had time to work on it while working 10-hour shifts. Contributions by others are, of course, welcome. *cough*cough*hint*hint*
- dr-spangle
- Technical Advisor
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Re: [New forum] Website
Here's an FAQ question with an answer from me
Q: I've heard of people calling nations Simulationist or Secessionist, what does this mean?
A: Simulationist and Secessionist are rather outdated, vague and sometimes offensive terms that many people still use. Simulationist can mean the nation simulates a population, or the nation writes backstories and news articles on fictional events, or that the micronation has written a simulated history, or that they base most their communication through forums or even just that they don't claim land on earth. Secessionist can mean the nation has real attempts to breakaway from a real world nation, such as tibet or kosovo, or a nation that has claims to real world land but little actual independence such as sealand or atlantium or just nations that claim land they have no control over such as bedrooms, gardens, antarctica, home towns, planets, etc. such as Bobalania, New-Empire, New Britannia, etc. The lines of simulationist and secessionist often blur so heavily as to make both terms useless.
There we go, we have a start on the FAQ, continue adding questions and answers to questions... here's some questions to start you off:
1)What is Micras?
2)What are micronations?
3)What are micronationalists?
4)Who makes the maps?
5)What is PPD?
6)What can I do?
7)Why is there so much focus on forums and PPD?
What do "Alive" and "Dead" mean in micronational terms?
9)What is a papel?
10)What's a YAMO? Why are they discouraged?
Bam, there's some questions, make some answers.
Those questions are your christmas present.
Q: I've heard of people calling nations Simulationist or Secessionist, what does this mean?
A: Simulationist and Secessionist are rather outdated, vague and sometimes offensive terms that many people still use. Simulationist can mean the nation simulates a population, or the nation writes backstories and news articles on fictional events, or that the micronation has written a simulated history, or that they base most their communication through forums or even just that they don't claim land on earth. Secessionist can mean the nation has real attempts to breakaway from a real world nation, such as tibet or kosovo, or a nation that has claims to real world land but little actual independence such as sealand or atlantium or just nations that claim land they have no control over such as bedrooms, gardens, antarctica, home towns, planets, etc. such as Bobalania, New-Empire, New Britannia, etc. The lines of simulationist and secessionist often blur so heavily as to make both terms useless.
There we go, we have a start on the FAQ, continue adding questions and answers to questions... here's some questions to start you off:
1)What is Micras?
2)What are micronations?
3)What are micronationalists?
4)Who makes the maps?
5)What is PPD?
6)What can I do?
7)Why is there so much focus on forums and PPD?
What do "Alive" and "Dead" mean in micronational terms?
9)What is a papel?
10)What's a YAMO? Why are they discouraged?
Bam, there's some questions, make some answers.
Those questions are your christmas present.
Re: [New forum] Website
All good apart from the Micras related questions. Isn't hub.mn mean't to be separate from Micras?
- dr-spangle
- Technical Advisor
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Re: [New forum] Website
I think we're off to a bad start, because I find your answer to the simulationist vs secessionist question an incredibly slanted, intentionally opinionated viewpoint. I would have written it something like:
A: Traditionally, a "secessionist" micronation refers to one that lays claim to real territory on Earth, usually either in modern developed countries (such as claiming large parts of any major country, such as the United States, Britain, or Austrailia) or else in places of little human development (such as Antarctica, small islands, or even the moon.) A "simulationist" micronation makes no such claims, preferring to run a completely fictional society that has no ties to actual claims to real world geography. The majority of both categories are not trying to start real countries either on real territory or on the internet and use the hobby as an exercise in politics, culture, and other forms of society. However, micronations still tend to fall into either a "secessionist" or a "simulationist" category, and despite being realistically very similar, they often have difficulties seeing eye-to-eye and working together within the greater hobby.
Also, tossing out a few other answers for your guys's consideration:
9)What is a papel?
A) A papel is a fake second account pretending to be a distinct, different person. The idea behind running a papel is that it gives someone a second voice to support whatever they are doing in the hobby, such a second vote in national elections or a second viewpoint in a key debate. These can be difficult to track since a lot of the activity in the hobby happens online so it can be difficult to tell if you're talking to a distinct person or just another login of someone else. Running a papel is highly discouraged in the hobby as being misleading and unethical, and accusations and proof of running a papel will call a person's character into question for a long time to come.
It's worth noting that one person using multiple login names for roleplaying or other national culture matters (such as a separate account for a new King of the land) is not, in itself, unethical and discouraged, provided that the person informs the public at large that they are controlling the multiple logins. This is different from running a papel, because a papel is designed to deceive others into thinking that the papel is a real, separate person.
{should probably put synonymous terms for papel in here somewhere, but none come readily to mind}
10)What's a YAMO? Why are they discouraged?
A) YAMO stands for "Yet Another Micronational Organization." Many newcomers to the hobby come up with the idea starting a United Nations or European Union type group for various reasons involving diplomacy, trade, and other matters. The problems with these are 1) nearly every single nation tries to start one of these at some point in their lifetime, which means there are far more of these around than we actually need, and 2) most micronations don't require a separate organization to help them conduct diplomacy and are uncomfortable with the idea of surrendering some of their authority to an organization that can boss them around. Because so many powerless or pointless organizations spring up, the term YAMO has developed to refer to them in a derogatory way.
This is not to say that all micronational organizations are useless. The MCS (Micronational Cartography Society) provides a very useful and fun service to its members by updating maps of the fictional planet of Micras based on the current happenings in the hobby. Still, for every one winner, there are dozens of YAMOs. It's our recommendation that people interested in starting a micronational organization think very carefully about what their purpose will be and try to find a unique function that both enhances the hobby and has the longevity last more than a few weeks.
A: Traditionally, a "secessionist" micronation refers to one that lays claim to real territory on Earth, usually either in modern developed countries (such as claiming large parts of any major country, such as the United States, Britain, or Austrailia) or else in places of little human development (such as Antarctica, small islands, or even the moon.) A "simulationist" micronation makes no such claims, preferring to run a completely fictional society that has no ties to actual claims to real world geography. The majority of both categories are not trying to start real countries either on real territory or on the internet and use the hobby as an exercise in politics, culture, and other forms of society. However, micronations still tend to fall into either a "secessionist" or a "simulationist" category, and despite being realistically very similar, they often have difficulties seeing eye-to-eye and working together within the greater hobby.
Also, tossing out a few other answers for your guys's consideration:
9)What is a papel?
A) A papel is a fake second account pretending to be a distinct, different person. The idea behind running a papel is that it gives someone a second voice to support whatever they are doing in the hobby, such a second vote in national elections or a second viewpoint in a key debate. These can be difficult to track since a lot of the activity in the hobby happens online so it can be difficult to tell if you're talking to a distinct person or just another login of someone else. Running a papel is highly discouraged in the hobby as being misleading and unethical, and accusations and proof of running a papel will call a person's character into question for a long time to come.
It's worth noting that one person using multiple login names for roleplaying or other national culture matters (such as a separate account for a new King of the land) is not, in itself, unethical and discouraged, provided that the person informs the public at large that they are controlling the multiple logins. This is different from running a papel, because a papel is designed to deceive others into thinking that the papel is a real, separate person.
{should probably put synonymous terms for papel in here somewhere, but none come readily to mind}
10)What's a YAMO? Why are they discouraged?
A) YAMO stands for "Yet Another Micronational Organization." Many newcomers to the hobby come up with the idea starting a United Nations or European Union type group for various reasons involving diplomacy, trade, and other matters. The problems with these are 1) nearly every single nation tries to start one of these at some point in their lifetime, which means there are far more of these around than we actually need, and 2) most micronations don't require a separate organization to help them conduct diplomacy and are uncomfortable with the idea of surrendering some of their authority to an organization that can boss them around. Because so many powerless or pointless organizations spring up, the term YAMO has developed to refer to them in a derogatory way.
This is not to say that all micronational organizations are useless. The MCS (Micronational Cartography Society) provides a very useful and fun service to its members by updating maps of the fictional planet of Micras based on the current happenings in the hobby. Still, for every one winner, there are dozens of YAMOs. It's our recommendation that people interested in starting a micronational organization think very carefully about what their purpose will be and try to find a unique function that both enhances the hobby and has the longevity last more than a few weeks.
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Re: [New forum] Website
Paper doll, sock puppet.SaiKar wrote:{should probably put synonymous terms for papel in here somewhere, but none come readily to mind}
Harald Freyjugjöf the Generous Giver of the House of the Descendants of Freyja
High King of Stormark
Sovereign Lord on all Continents
High King of Stormark
Sovereign Lord on all Continents
- Guido Zambelis
- Posts: 2854
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:26 pm
Re: [New forum] Website
Gunna keep going, I guess.
5) What is PPD?
A) PPD stands for "posts per day," as in average posts per day on a messsage forum. It is a measure that some organizations, such as the MCS, use to gauge the activity and liveliness of micronations. The most posts a message forum has, the higher their posts per day will become. Although there is some good natured competition and ribbing about PPD counts, higher PPD nations don't gain any special privileges within most organizations. However, newcomers to the hobby may see a high PPD count as a sign of a very active and vibrant community that they may desire to join as well as seeing a low PPD count as a sign of a very slow, possibly dying country.
7) Why is there so much focus on forums and PPD?
A) Largely for accountability reasons. In this hobby, where basically everyone claims to be the leader of a powerful country, it can be difficult to tell the real strengths of communities apart. Forums provide ways for participants to interact and PPD shows how many interactions are happening. It's the most reliable system we've found so far and far from perfect - many beloved countries have very low PPDs. If you have any suggestions for other practical, unbiased ways of comparing micronations, we'd love to hear them.
8) What do "Alive" and "Dead" mean in micronational terms?
A) It's largely semantics, but an "alive" nation is one that currently has participants and a "dead" nation is one that has either been abandoned by all of its participants or has ended with a statement formally closing it dow. If a nation has never been declared dead by its management but is clearly no longer a functioning micronation due to rampant inactivity, various organizations that it was involved in may declare it dead for their purposes. The procedures for declaring a nation dead vary between organizations. For example, the MCS requires either 4 months of 1 PPD or less or 3 months of 0 PPD or less to declare a nation dead and remove it from their maps.
Even dead nations can "come back to life" if their former participants show renewed interest - this is fairly common, and usually a cause for praise within the hobby. However, trying to revive a dead nation without the consent of its founder and/or former important members is generally considered very bad taste.
Skipped the hard first four questions and I'm not really sure what question six is even referring to - might want to rewrite that one
5) What is PPD?
A) PPD stands for "posts per day," as in average posts per day on a messsage forum. It is a measure that some organizations, such as the MCS, use to gauge the activity and liveliness of micronations. The most posts a message forum has, the higher their posts per day will become. Although there is some good natured competition and ribbing about PPD counts, higher PPD nations don't gain any special privileges within most organizations. However, newcomers to the hobby may see a high PPD count as a sign of a very active and vibrant community that they may desire to join as well as seeing a low PPD count as a sign of a very slow, possibly dying country.
7) Why is there so much focus on forums and PPD?
A) Largely for accountability reasons. In this hobby, where basically everyone claims to be the leader of a powerful country, it can be difficult to tell the real strengths of communities apart. Forums provide ways for participants to interact and PPD shows how many interactions are happening. It's the most reliable system we've found so far and far from perfect - many beloved countries have very low PPDs. If you have any suggestions for other practical, unbiased ways of comparing micronations, we'd love to hear them.
8) What do "Alive" and "Dead" mean in micronational terms?
A) It's largely semantics, but an "alive" nation is one that currently has participants and a "dead" nation is one that has either been abandoned by all of its participants or has ended with a statement formally closing it dow. If a nation has never been declared dead by its management but is clearly no longer a functioning micronation due to rampant inactivity, various organizations that it was involved in may declare it dead for their purposes. The procedures for declaring a nation dead vary between organizations. For example, the MCS requires either 4 months of 1 PPD or less or 3 months of 0 PPD or less to declare a nation dead and remove it from their maps.
Even dead nations can "come back to life" if their former participants show renewed interest - this is fairly common, and usually a cause for praise within the hobby. However, trying to revive a dead nation without the consent of its founder and/or former important members is generally considered very bad taste.
Skipped the hard first four questions and I'm not really sure what question six is even referring to - might want to rewrite that one
- Guido Zambelis
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- dr-spangle
- Technical Advisor
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Re: [New forum] Website
Nope.
Here's a little todolist:
1)Copyright message
2)About page
3)Hosting
4)Micronationalism page
5)Hosted sites
6)Image uploader link?
7)URL shortener link?
Finish URL shortener
I presume FAQ goes on the about page?
Here's a little todolist:
1)Copyright message
2)About page
3)Hosting
4)Micronationalism page
5)Hosted sites
6)Image uploader link?
7)URL shortener link?
Finish URL shortener
I presume FAQ goes on the about page?
Re: [New forum] Website
FAQ should go on a FAQ page, preferably visible on the main navigational bar at all times.
Copyright message...
Copyright message...
Could go at the bottom of most pages (assuming we don't go live until 2011 anyway), and if you want a more drawn out statement for its own little legal page:© 2010-2011 Hub.nm. All rights reserved.
All of this is assuming that Hub.nm is our effective public name. Edit or add to it if any of those things I put in there haven't been worked out yet.© 2010-2011 Hub.nm. All rights reserved. "Hub.nm", "Hub.mn - The Micronational Community", the Hub.nm logo, and the Hub.nm website are copyrighted works of Hub.nm. Do not use or reproduce without permission. Contact the administration at {whatever email} for questions or other concerns over usage.
The names, flags, logos, and other material from the organizations and micronations hosted on Hub.nm are used with permission. Contact the respective organizations for more information on usage.
- dr-spangle
- Technical Advisor
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Re: [New forum] Website
Do we need a copyright though, really? It has no meaning, and who really cares if they copy some random text intro to a site? Would be flattering if they deem stuff worth stealing.
And of course, it's hub.mn, mn as in MicroNation, not nm, we're not dealing in nanometers.
Also the buttons in the nav right now fit nicely, adding FAQ somewhere wouldn't fit nicely, putting it in the about page gives the about page something to actually have on it.
And of course, it's hub.mn, mn as in MicroNation, not nm, we're not dealing in nanometers.
Also the buttons in the nav right now fit nicely, adding FAQ somewhere wouldn't fit nicely, putting it in the about page gives the about page something to actually have on it.
Re: [New forum] Website
Well, like I said, making a big deal about copyright is just invitations to lawsuits. It happens automatica... actually, wait, I'm not so sure how internet copyright works across multiple countries like this. Maybe where the servers are hosted? *couple of searches later* Can't find anything that deals with sites outside the US... hmm...
... well, in any event, the little "© 2010-2011 Hub.nm. All rights reserved." statement at the bottom of pages doesn't take up any room (feel free to make it like size 6 text or something) and kind of imply we're serious about the website in general, so it's pretty harmless.
... well, in any event, the little "© 2010-2011 Hub.nm. All rights reserved." statement at the bottom of pages doesn't take up any room (feel free to make it like size 6 text or something) and kind of imply we're serious about the website in general, so it's pretty harmless.