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[New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:32 pm
by Guido Zambelis
The following system was proposed last time we discussed this. Anyone have any more contributions?

http://ninetyone.org/files/other/staffmembers.pdf

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:26 pm
by dr-spangle
For those who would like it in post format rather than PDF:
Staff Members
It is the duty of staff members and all members of the community to act in a way that is conducive to the good of the community, and this is the overriding principle. In the case of serious or long-term disability, staff members should relinquish their rights and responsibilities. Staff members are free to engage in posting and discussion as per any other member of the forum.

There are two types of staff member, moderators and administrators.

Moderators
Role
Moderators exist to moderate debate – that is, the content of posts and the conduct of members. They keep the boards clean and well-ordered, and keep the peace (where necessary) between warring parties. They decide which content is appropriate and which is not.

Chosen
New moderators are chosen by the council of moderators. Any member of the forum can veto the choice.

Duties
  • To remove illegal content
    To enforce the community guidelines
    To impose sanctions on unruly members in accordance with guidelines
Administrators
Role
Administrators exist to maintain the technical elements of the forum, to keep regular backups of the database in case of error, and to conduct maintenance where necessary. Administrators should never get involved with moderating activities, unless to assist with a technical issue or unless a member is in gross violation of the community guidelines and no moderator is available.

Chosen
New administrators are chosen by public consensus.

Duties
  • To backup the database at least every two weeks and subsequently leave the confirmation message in the Database backup log
    To check the forum status and repair any errors
    To update the forum software when necessary
Based on http://micronations.eu/forum/index.php? ... 16#msg9516

It all seems reasonable, but the ways they are chosen seem error prone, especially the ways to choose the first, which are not outlined at all...
The way to choose moderators seems a little extreme to have any member able to veto the decision completely... perhaps having 2 or 3 members veto to cancel the selection might make it less prone to having an example person, let's call him kofac, suddenly deciding that no one is right if it's not kofac.
The new administrators part, does that mean 100% agreement, because if so, that's the same as having any member can veto, and we get our problem with the hypothetical kofac.

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:25 pm
by Guido Zambelis
It all seems reasonable, but the ways they are chosen seem error prone, especially the ways to choose the first, which are not outlined at all...
The way to choose moderators seems a little extreme to have any member able to veto the decision completely... perhaps having 2 or 3 members veto to cancel the selection might make it less prone to having an example person, let's call him kofac, suddenly deciding that no one is right if it's not kofac.
My bad, that was raised before and I thought I had changed it to 'council of moderators'.
The new administrators part, does that mean 100% agreement, because if so, that's the same as having any member can veto, and we get our problem with the hypothetical kofac.
No, not really. If someone was being particularly and unfairly obstructive, it wouldn't count against someone who was proposed.

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:35 pm
by dr-spangle
My mind said consensus meant 100% for some reason...

Maybe a percentage should be set? perhaps more than 50%? maybe 60% or even 75%?

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:45 pm
by Guido Zambelis
Consensus is normally something like 75%, but the whole point is it's not a vote, so there aren't fixed limits.

Edit: correcting my heinous misspelling of "there".

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:48 pm
by dr-spangle
That sounds ambiguous... Is ambiguous good? I always think it will lead to arguments, but so many start over where to set defined limits and whether defined limits are appropriate, I'm not entirely certain

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:42 am
by SaiKar
Any member of the forum can veto the choice.
Err.

"I veto everyone from here to forever" ?

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:11 am
by dr-spangle
Yes I pointed that out in my first reply to this thread, guido then said he meant to change it to "council of moderators" in his first reply to this thread

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:34 am
by Orion
Considering past and present problems in this area, I would like to see a clause within both the Moderator and Administrator articles that states:

Failure to Fulfill Duties
  • Inactivity for a period of one (1) or more months
    Exhibited and obvious bias in a ruling
    Gross misconduct and/or abuse of privileges
Wherein an Admin/Mod that meets any of these criteria is automatically dismissed and will be replaced.

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:19 pm
by Lewis
Inactivity without a justified LOA should be failure.

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:56 pm
by SaiKar
"Justified LoA" is such a bogus, easily abusable concept though. Where are you on the planet where you don't have access to a computer at least once a week or so? What sort of lifestyle are you living that you can't take ten minutes out every couple of days to scan through some voting topics? "Busy with university?" Use your study breaks to hop on the forums. If you can't handle it, it means you just aren't interested and are using your downtime for something else. I never did have any patience for that sort of thing when it involved the rest of us sitting around and waiting, hoping one person gave us a few passing moments of thought and consideration.

30 days and you're out. Should have no exceptions.

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:05 pm
by Guido Zambelis
How about:
It is the duty of staff members and all members of the community to act in a way that is conducive to the good of the community, and this is the overriding principle. Staff members are free to engage in posting and discussion as per any other member of the forum.

If a staff member knows they will be inactive for a long period of time, they are expected to resign their position. If a staff member is inactive for a period longer than thirty days, exhibits obvious bias in a ruling, or is guilty of gross misconduct and/or abuse of privileges, the community may, by consensus, decide that they shall be removed from their position.

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:27 pm
by Lewis
SaiKar wrote:"Justified LoA" is such a bogus, easily abusable concept though. Where are you on the planet where you don't have access to a computer at least once a week or so? What sort of lifestyle are you living that you can't take ten minutes out every couple of days to scan through some voting topics? "Busy with university?" Use your study breaks to hop on the forums. If you can't handle it, it means you just aren't interested and are using your downtime for something else. I never did have any patience for that sort of thing when it involved the rest of us sitting around and waiting, hoping one person gave us a few passing moments of thought and consideration.

30 days and you're out. Should have no exceptions.
Sometimes I'm in Germany and actually don't have the time to do things with micronations because I'm out places, and the 10 minutes on the internet I have is for work. Or you go on holiday to France and don't have access to a computer because you are at the poolside and doing things.

I said justifiable because sometimes as you say, you can easily do it, but not always. It's nice to give people the benefit of the doubt and just keep them on because you understand that they are busy, that way you don't get major butthurts when they come back. It takes the leader and rest of the community to make a decision. Making it too bureaucratic and not pragmatic could be potentially damaging.

That's good Guido, the consensus is a great part of it. It should be a decision based on a guideline and not a constitutional rule being enforced.

**edit** Also, any member of staff can move the claims to the council forum so voting starts quicker.

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:02 am
by Guido Zambelis
We are talking about the administration of hub.mn, nothing to do with the MCS. If the MCS council decide that they would like hub.mn moderators to move threads, then that will be a decision for them (at a later date).

The way it's written the onus is on staff to resign if they know they will be absent, but if the community decides it really wants rid of them due to inactivity, they can make that happen as well.

I can't see that inactivity on the part of staff is likely to be a large problem - there would be no minimum requirement of active staff and inactivity would not prevent the other staff from carrying out their functions (unlike the MCS council).

Re: [New forum] Structure of organisation

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:16 am
by Orion
On SaiKar's post: As Lewis said, there are times when you can't access a computer. I, for example, work in environmental affairs and am often in the field (literally) and don't have internet access. But I typically keep people well aware of when I'm going to be busy or away simply for the sake of being courteous. Many people do not extend that courtesy, which is where the problem lies.


Although I am not entirely happy with the "consensus" bit (although the rest of it is fine), I will acquiesce to Guido's suggested wording.