Mining rights in Normark
Re: Mining rights in Normark
MITO is an inherently Micras thing, you have to have land on Micras to play in MITO. That's the common ground. The SCUE does not. I like MITO and I'm not part of the SCUE and have no interest in ever doing so. Combining the two would effectively kick anyone who didn't like the SCUE out of MITO, thus putting an independent organization in precedence over a Micras one.
Now, the other way around, the correct way, would just to acknowledge the MITO trading credits in the SCUE, allowing people who use both SCUE and MITO to freely trade back and forth but those who are not in the SCUE can still use their Trade Credits as normal and can decide whether or not to accept SCUE monies as Trade Credits. Though it sounds similar to what you're envisioning, the emphasis is on the Trade Credit as the dominant currency, not the SCUE Buck. People unaffiliated with the SCUE can continue to use their Trade Credits, whereas if you combined the two I'd have to join the SCUE to get my bastard SCUE MITO Credit love child.
Now, the other way around, the correct way, would just to acknowledge the MITO trading credits in the SCUE, allowing people who use both SCUE and MITO to freely trade back and forth but those who are not in the SCUE can still use their Trade Credits as normal and can decide whether or not to accept SCUE monies as Trade Credits. Though it sounds similar to what you're envisioning, the emphasis is on the Trade Credit as the dominant currency, not the SCUE Buck. People unaffiliated with the SCUE can continue to use their Trade Credits, whereas if you combined the two I'd have to join the SCUE to get my bastard SCUE MITO Credit love child.
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Re: Mining rights in Normark
Well that was my initial suggestion, to simply use the SCUE money in place of Trade Credits when making transactions or to create a sort of simulational understanding where those who are members of both can assign an SCUE currency value to trade credits. There really is nothing from stopping members of both from turning that into a viable method of trade. But alas, that fell on deaf ears.
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Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Re: Mining rights in Normark
See, you don't get it. You don't use SCUE money in place of Trade Credits. SCUE Bucks would have to be converted to Trade Credits, but they are not worth anything in the MITO organization themselves. Trade Credits and SCUE Bucks would need to stay two very separate entities. That divide is vital.
Regardless, even if you just do make SCUE Bucks and Trade Credits transparent that would make any SCUE nation significantly wealthier than any nation not in the SCUE. To compensate MITO only nations would have to be credited (in Trade Credits) what they would have received (in SCUE Bucks) if they were in the SCUE. That blurs the line between them far too much, leaves the door wide open to 'well then just make everyone using MITO join the SCUE, or make SCUE and MITO the same thing.' If you did give MITO only nations the money boost, it would them wealthier in Trade Credits than SCUE nations, because they wont have SCUE stuff to spend their SCUE Bucks on.
Hence, they should be kept separate.
Regardless, even if you just do make SCUE Bucks and Trade Credits transparent that would make any SCUE nation significantly wealthier than any nation not in the SCUE. To compensate MITO only nations would have to be credited (in Trade Credits) what they would have received (in SCUE Bucks) if they were in the SCUE. That blurs the line between them far too much, leaves the door wide open to 'well then just make everyone using MITO join the SCUE, or make SCUE and MITO the same thing.' If you did give MITO only nations the money boost, it would them wealthier in Trade Credits than SCUE nations, because they wont have SCUE stuff to spend their SCUE Bucks on.
Hence, they should be kept separate.
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Re: Mining rights in Normark
I'm beginning to be reminded why micronational economics are pointless lol. Out of curiosity, what are your qualms with the SCUE? At some point, SCUE nations need a way to keep track of their natural resources as well.
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Re: Mining rights in Normark
Mostly because Uantir's economy is based off of literary, industrious and artistic contribution not currency. For instance, due to your work on those insignia, you're wealthier in Uantir than 80% of the Uantirian Aristocrats that bother to check in.
A nation's economy in many ways is more powerful when judging a nation's strength internationally than a military. It's the backbone, the core. A strong or weak economy is the foundation for deciding if you can have a strong military, you have the buying power to make sure the people are happy etc. etc. It's extremely intimate to each nation. As such I vastly oppose trusting my nation's coffers to a unified bank. I'm an extreme anti-centrist (Yep, your first ever Libertarian Absolute Monarch, chew on that for a while) and the very idea that a core part of what makes a nation independent is controlled by someone else. It's got all the same problems with replacing a standing army with some mercenary forces. Not having ownership of one's economy is a terrible idea. I'm not saying you're going to abuse it, I'm saying that you could and the person who takes up the leadership of the SCUE after you could.
Plus, more politically, it reeks of the one world, global currency, no borders UN crap that makes me kind of nauseous. People living across the street from each other can't manage to live their day to day lives in the same way, the idea that you can try and create these vast unified, lock step, androgynous governments and expect them to actually work is preposterous. And when you believe that things work more efficiently from the ground up than the top down, it goes without saying that the little things add up to become stronger and more influential than one big thing. Thus it's little things, like avoiding the SCUE like the plague, that will help keep the global government monster at bay.
You don't have to agree with it, but sooner or later you'll have to learn that some people just don't like to play your way. That's why I find the idea of individual economies and currencies and exchange rates and bickering far more exciting than a vanilla, seamless, characterless unified economy.
A nation's economy in many ways is more powerful when judging a nation's strength internationally than a military. It's the backbone, the core. A strong or weak economy is the foundation for deciding if you can have a strong military, you have the buying power to make sure the people are happy etc. etc. It's extremely intimate to each nation. As such I vastly oppose trusting my nation's coffers to a unified bank. I'm an extreme anti-centrist (Yep, your first ever Libertarian Absolute Monarch, chew on that for a while) and the very idea that a core part of what makes a nation independent is controlled by someone else. It's got all the same problems with replacing a standing army with some mercenary forces. Not having ownership of one's economy is a terrible idea. I'm not saying you're going to abuse it, I'm saying that you could and the person who takes up the leadership of the SCUE after you could.
Plus, more politically, it reeks of the one world, global currency, no borders UN crap that makes me kind of nauseous. People living across the street from each other can't manage to live their day to day lives in the same way, the idea that you can try and create these vast unified, lock step, androgynous governments and expect them to actually work is preposterous. And when you believe that things work more efficiently from the ground up than the top down, it goes without saying that the little things add up to become stronger and more influential than one big thing. Thus it's little things, like avoiding the SCUE like the plague, that will help keep the global government monster at bay.
You don't have to agree with it, but sooner or later you'll have to learn that some people just don't like to play your way. That's why I find the idea of individual economies and currencies and exchange rates and bickering far more exciting than a vanilla, seamless, characterless unified economy.
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Re: Mining rights in Normark
All members are free to leave the SCUE at any time, which is a pretty good check against tyranny. As for the economy, the only thing the SCUE provides is the software for transactions between people and nations, and a 1:1 exchange rate between the various SCUE currencies. If you want taxes, tariffs, or whatever it is, that is up to the individual nation.
I could see the use for a commodities market in the SCUE bank, kinda like how there now is a stock market there. The nation could trade natural resources instead of stock.
I could see the use for a commodities market in the SCUE bank, kinda like how there now is a stock market there. The nation could trade natural resources instead of stock.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Re: Mining rights in Normark
We're still allowed to call the currency Crowns. It is far from global government and really just provides a better way for micronations to interact. I could understand more if we were discussing something like the MTO or some such but this is just a piece of software. At some point, if you could garner enough support, Andreas might implement separate currencies, although I would imagine that you would need quite a bit of support. Frankly, your concerns are just slightly far fetched.King Ailin of Uantir wrote: Plus, more politically, it reeks of the one world, global currency, no borders UN crap that makes me kind of nauseous. People living across the street from each other can't manage to live their day to day lives in the same way, the idea that you can try and create these vast unified, lock step, androgynous governments and expect them to actually work is preposterous. And when you believe that things work more efficiently from the ground up than the top down, it goes without saying that the little things add up to become stronger and more influential than one big thing. Thus it's little things, like avoiding the SCUE like the plague, that will help keep the global government monster at bay.
You don't have to agree with it, but sooner or later you'll have to learn that some people just don't like to play your way. That's why I find the idea of individual economies and currencies and exchange rates and bickering far more exciting than a vanilla, seamless, characterless unified economy
.
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Re: Mining rights in Normark
Heeheehee. Have you read some stuff he's said about Bastion, too?Einhorn wrote:Frankly, your concerns are just slightly far fetched.
Re: Mining rights in Normark
Sure, I can leave at any time, and leave behind any and all work I put into it. Free time is rather expensive actually.
I don't need individual banks, because there's no money in Uantir, not yet anyway.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't need, or want, the SCUE and I certainly don't want the SCUE to take over other things I participate in and kick me out of them.
I don't need individual banks, because there's no money in Uantir, not yet anyway.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't need, or want, the SCUE and I certainly don't want the SCUE to take over other things I participate in and kick me out of them.
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His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
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Re: Mining rights in Normark
Well, now I don't like the concept of Bastion either. I like my own forum and that is that, but irregardless I don't consider the Bastion nations to be of a single government. It's purely a matter of aesthetics and control for me - it has no political basis. Having a common bank software versus a common forum are two wildly different things and are like comparing galaxies to planets.
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
Zand Gozâr - Grand Vizier & Satrap of Kumarastan, Kingdom of Babkha
Re: Mining rights in Normark
Very good point, but mind the pence and the pounds sort themselves. The little stuff is very important. If more people stood their ground and paid attention to the little bits, we wouldn't have as many big problems to deal with.
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Re: Mining rights in Normark
As far as I can tell, most interest in MITO died out several years ago. Nathan was very keen on it, a couple other people (Ailin and Jess are the two I remember, but there may have been more) were kind of interested; but most of the trades done involved me bugging a nation who didn't really care that much so that Gralus/Shireroth/Nelaga could get the resources we did care about. That or me trading between those three nations. I had a lot of fun for a time, but I won the trading game (as did Nathan) and so since nobody else was keen to play we put it back into the cupboard and have given up expecting anyone else to get it out.
That said, if there is interest in some sort of resource exchange thing, tied into the SCUE bank or not, I say go for it! Get a couple different individuals (preferably representing a couple nations between them) to agree on a shared system and go for it. I can potentially provide programming when you get to that stage, but there are certainly easy enough ways to keep track without a fancy php program if you want. The key thing is to get multiple people interested.
That said, if there is interest in some sort of resource exchange thing, tied into the SCUE bank or not, I say go for it! Get a couple different individuals (preferably representing a couple nations between them) to agree on a shared system and go for it. I can potentially provide programming when you get to that stage, but there are certainly easy enough ways to keep track without a fancy php program if you want. The key thing is to get multiple people interested.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
Re: Mining rights in Normark
The problem inherent with MITO is that once you get to a set spot, beat the game for you or to level 4 for me, you can't go any farther until you expand or someone else shows up and wants to trade. Even then, if you've gotten to the perfect balance necessary to get as high as you can go, you might not be able to afford to let go of that much. I've never lost interest in the MITO, there's just not been anything to do since I finished all my deals.
What kind of reserach exchange are you referring to, isn't MITO already the place for resource exchange?
What kind of reserach exchange are you referring to, isn't MITO already the place for resource exchange?
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Re: Mining rights in Normark
Well ... it depends how you want to do resource exchange. You have to ask the question 'What's the point of trading?' For MITO, I invented a levels system to provide a point, and that worked for some people, but not everyone. I think there are people interested in resource simulation in the sense of 'I mine some resources, sell it to you, you build a bridge out of it' etc. But so far people haven't got together enough to work out an agreed system for how to do that, so it hasn't got beyond one or two companies. That's the sort of thing I expect people are asking for.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
Re: Mining rights in Normark
I meant to do something like that with MITO, develop cultural things based off of the resources we have access to, but I never did. So many projects.
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