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Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:48 pm
by NewZimiaGov
GilesMelang wrote:Representative Jack,

This is an official debate thread. Please avoid personal attacks.
Instead, make reasoned arguments. As for Natopia leaving, this
is a voluntary organization and given the problems SCUE has had,
departures are not to be unexpected, although I wish that they would
be patient enough to wait to see the changes we plan to implement.

Regards,

Giles
The biggest problem that has ever faced SCUE is inactivity. I think everyone can agree that the biggest problem with SCUE is that people just don't really use it. People don't use it, furthermore, because there are no real incentives to using it. SCUE by itself basically a money warehouse. It's a place to store money, and little else.

In my opinion, as someone who no longer has any stake in SCUE, the proposed reforms would not create reasons to participate. A lending system in and of itself doesn't do anything to promote activity. If people aren't using the money that they already have, they won't do anything with the money you're offering to lend them. They won't even apply for loans in the first place. That said, I think that a lending system could promote activity if it were coupled with a reasonable system of taxation on nation's inactive holdings. You could potentially create at least a superficial incentive for nations to apply for loans by taxing the unused currency in each nation's account, and this could theoretically lead to less superficial incentives further down the line. It's something that you might consider.

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:51 pm
by Jack
GilesMelang wrote:Representative Jack,

This is an official debate thread. Please avoid personal attacks.
Instead, make reasoned arguments. As for Natopia leaving, this
is a voluntary organization and given the problems SCUE has had,
departures are not to be unexpected, although I wish that they would
be patient enough to wait to see the changes we plan to implement.

Regards,

Giles
I'm quite pissed that you didn't listen to my contributions but went on with your plan immediately. We were still discussing possibilities. Also, good luck with your SCUE, all semi-active countries have left. I don't want anything to do with it anymore either.

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:30 pm
by Benkern
To be fair to Giles, he didn't kill SCUE. He attempted some necromancy, some might even suggest -philia, truly worthy of a lich cookie or two. It was dead before he got here; he just played with (!) the corpse.

There is already a loan mod system built into SCUE by my reckoning: http://shireroth.org/bank/mods/loan/index.php and the problem remains that economic stimulus to do nothing with money that means nothing is worthless.

Currency, virtual or physical, is worth something only to the extent that it is exchanged for goods and services. This has actually happened in the past in Shireroth - I and Scott both paid Comrade Yastreb for some art design, and I also did that for Conglacio. What they did with the money, I have no idea! I hope Andreas wouldn't mind me co-opting him from Gralus into 'full Shirerithian', but this was a Shirerithian project from Erik through Andreas that has grown, but like a tree without sufficient nutrients, the earnest growth of the trunk has not been matched by it taking root. Shireroth leaving is a big signal. It's not too late for this idea and crucially for the (to my mind) well-designed bank software. I regret that it might be too late for SCUE as a specific organisation and for the good chairman/president/king (delete Vasroe's title as appropriate).

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:47 pm
by GilesMelang
In regards to NewZimiaGov's comments about a tax to stimulate
activity: I am in agreement, that would work. My plan would
accomplish the same, for new nations that join, but not for existing
ones, through the mechanism of interest. If the money is not
used fast enough, interest will accumulate, thus making it important
to spend the money within an ideal time period. The problem with
a tax and applying it to existing nations is primarily political.

In regards to Jacks's comment, excluding his personal attacks,
"Also, good luck with your SCUE, all semi-active countries have left. ":
This is incorrect. Flanders is one of the most active nations on SCUE
and most other nations are just sideshows due to their decreased
activity, which started in some cases years before me. If Flanders left,
then I would be seriously concerned. I have been looking at their
forums through Google Translate to monitor opinions there, and
they do not seem to want to leave. Also their advertisement to
people in Shireroth to move their accounts there does not indicate
that they want people to leave SCUE entirely, just move their accounts
to Flanders.

In regards to Benkern: the bank interface is an amazing thing. Those
who quit SCUE have several options but I personally would prefer to
use SCUE and I think those nations that truly use SCUE for all it is
worth, like Flanders, appreciate it more. I encourage using the loan,
stock market, and company pages features. More people would be
obligated to use them, as well as do economic stuff in general, if they
knew there was a ticking time-out on their money, as in a tax or, as in
my plan, increasing interest.

So let's vote for this amendment so we can stimulate more activity on SCUE!

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:46 am
by Jack
I'm a citizen of Flanders. Flanders will leave the SCUE. Time to be seriously concerned.

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:40 pm
by GilesMelang
This is a reminder to please submit any debate comments
soon. I sincerely hope all nations have been able to complete
their internal ratification processes on the Treaty; if not,
that is fine, we can take the vote on the changes and perhaps
give more time to take in the extra votes later.

Voting on the amendment starts tonight, 9.22, at 10:35 PM.

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:53 pm
by Rasmus
Jack wrote:Natopia is discussing leaving as well. Not many active nations left. You killed the SCUE, unfortunately. Might be time to admit it.
They killed the corpse! The bastards!

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:16 pm
by GilesMelang
I would ask people to refrain from making comments during the
voting period.

The clock is ticking on the voting period. Please submit your votes
to me, via PM if you prefer privacy.

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:41 pm
by Benkern
You didn't include a timezone in your post about the vote starting (not wanting to point out a small error among a litany), so it's unclear to me when this vote would end, but the treaty provides for amendments only by a majority of all members, which appears unlikely at this point. Remember also that Shireroth and Natopia remain members for the time being (until 30th Sept and 8th Oct respectively).

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:04 pm
by GilesMelang
Monsieur Benkern,

We are going by the time on the boards. But if a vote or two
comes in after that time, due to varying timezones or whatever,
that is okay. We will adjust the vote tally accordingly.

Cordialement,

Mr Melang

Re: SCUE Member nations: Please Vote on SCUE Treaty Changes

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:25 pm
by GilesMelang
Voting on the amendment has ended.

YEA: 0
NAY: 0
ABSTAIN: 0

The amendment fails to pass.