Cycling the staff
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Re: Cycling the staff
Okay so we'll consider his position now "open". Though I think as a formality we should PM him anyway to cover our own backsides.
Going on down the list of staff members, how active is Chris/Chrimigules as a staff member?
Going on down the list of staff members, how active is Chris/Chrimigules as a staff member?
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
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Tarjei Einhornsson - Grand Marshal of The Nordic Union
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Re: Cycling the staff
I feel there should be a rule in place to do this, not an arbitrary "ooh, he's not bee around in a bit" thing.
Hence a register maybe?
Maybe a time since their last post in admin council? that could be found with a simple search from their member page on the forum? but I worry that'll lead to 3 council members being very active and two others being unable to get to claims fast enough and being removed due to inactivity, hence my idea of a register, which could complement that system rather than run instead of it...
Obviously if they've had no post in admin council or register in a set number of days/weeks they get a PM asking why, if they've registered a LOA that's ok, because it means they're on automatic abstain and they rarely slow down votes.
Hence a register maybe?
Maybe a time since their last post in admin council? that could be found with a simple search from their member page on the forum? but I worry that'll lead to 3 council members being very active and two others being unable to get to claims fast enough and being removed due to inactivity, hence my idea of a register, which could complement that system rather than run instead of it...
Obviously if they've had no post in admin council or register in a set number of days/weeks they get a PM asking why, if they've registered a LOA that's ok, because it means they're on automatic abstain and they rarely slow down votes.
Re: Cycling the staff
That is a fine idea. If they're on a legitimate LOA then they can be excused. If not, then there should be a 2-week limit. This hinges on staff members having the courtesy to tell us of LOAs longer than a week, but I have faith. But not showing up without an LOA would then begin the process of PMing or e-mailing them with an inquiry as to why. With that in mind if they don't respond after a week (a whopping 3 weeks of inactivity) we put in a temp. If there is further inactivity, the temp replaces them all together.
Of course this can be tweaked and modified. A temp should probably be assigned after the initial LOA-less 2 weeks and so forth. This is merely off the top of my head and obviously needs to be properly planned out and executed. Unfortunately there is really nothing I can do beyond being a loud voice, as I am not a staff member to really get these changes into effect, I have to rely on you and the consensus of the community.
Of course this can be tweaked and modified. A temp should probably be assigned after the initial LOA-less 2 weeks and so forth. This is merely off the top of my head and obviously needs to be properly planned out and executed. Unfortunately there is really nothing I can do beyond being a loud voice, as I am not a staff member to really get these changes into effect, I have to rely on you and the consensus of the community.
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Re: Cycling the staff
The charter, if I recall correctly, says we should have a junior staff member for when other council members are on LOA or just unable to vote on a claim, the last person in this position was Andreas.
Andreas and I tried to rewrite and rebuild the charter, and I believe andreas agreed with me on making the council open for viewing
Then there was an MSN conversation and Pete had him fired.
It's one of many things I wish I could turn back time and change because Andreas was almost certainly the best special map cartographer we ever had, he was devoted and worked hard, while remaining active...
But yeah, the first part of your post seems good too, there are two ways to get an admendment to the charter, 75% majority of member states or 50% majority of council members, but first it would need writing up in neat
Andreas and I tried to rewrite and rebuild the charter, and I believe andreas agreed with me on making the council open for viewing
Then there was an MSN conversation and Pete had him fired.
It's one of many things I wish I could turn back time and change because Andreas was almost certainly the best special map cartographer we ever had, he was devoted and worked hard, while remaining active...
But yeah, the first part of your post seems good too, there are two ways to get an admendment to the charter, 75% majority of member states or 50% majority of council members, but first it would need writing up in neat
Re: Cycling the staff
The "consensus of the community" can't do crap. Time and time again we've tried to change things with no results whatsoever. River widths, Leng, set distance representation for a pixel's width. All went nowhere. The charter is specifically set up to avoid us being able to do things like that:
Last time I pointed this out to Spangle he flipped out at me, so that'll probably happen again too.
It was tempting, very tempting, to just take a copy of the MCS map, change it now I wanted it to look, appoint a council of people I trust, and announce that I'm accepting modifications in direct competition with the MCS. That's still on the table. But I have so many other irons in the fire. Maybe after Bastion gets on its feet.
In any event, yes. How do we encourage positive change staying within the boundaries of civility? I'm always willing to do that until it's absolutely proven to be impossible. But I don't see too many avenues open at the moment. We've been talking about staff change options for a long freaking time. I don't want this to be just another in a long line of threads on the topic that gets no new posts for a while and is forgotten.
Re Andreas: that guy is one of the hardest working and fairest people in the hobby that I have ever seen and that knucklehead Pete threw him out in one of the most insulting manners possible. I hope he stays out; he's too good for any system that allows that while it stands.
75% of all member states. Good luck getting that many to turn up at ALL, let alone all be on the same page. There will always be a minority supporting the status quo for reasons like "it's always been that way" or "I don't see the point of change," which aren't actually real arguments for or against something, but they sure get tossed around a lot.11c)Ammendments may be added to the charter by a 50% majority vote of council members or a 75% majority vote of all member states in MCS.
Last time I pointed this out to Spangle he flipped out at me, so that'll probably happen again too.
It was tempting, very tempting, to just take a copy of the MCS map, change it now I wanted it to look, appoint a council of people I trust, and announce that I'm accepting modifications in direct competition with the MCS. That's still on the table. But I have so many other irons in the fire. Maybe after Bastion gets on its feet.
In any event, yes. How do we encourage positive change staying within the boundaries of civility? I'm always willing to do that until it's absolutely proven to be impossible. But I don't see too many avenues open at the moment. We've been talking about staff change options for a long freaking time. I don't want this to be just another in a long line of threads on the topic that gets no new posts for a while and is forgotten.
Re Andreas: that guy is one of the hardest working and fairest people in the hobby that I have ever seen and that knucklehead Pete threw him out in one of the most insulting manners possible. I hope he stays out; he's too good for any system that allows that while it stands.
Re: Cycling the staff
Then perhaps it is time to hold an audition for an active Junior Cartographer? So far it seems Benkern is the most inactive staff member, and a Junior Cartographer could pretty much fill the position without a problem.
As far as 75% of all MCS member nations, that is a steep number. It will require 21 of the 29 member nations to pass the vote. So I say we give the position of Junior Cartographer a test run to make sure we don't have to go through the monkey business of notifying 29 member states to vote on this.
As far as 75% of all MCS member nations, that is a steep number. It will require 21 of the 29 member nations to pass the vote. So I say we give the position of Junior Cartographer a test run to make sure we don't have to go through the monkey business of notifying 29 member states to vote on this.
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Re: Cycling the staff
There are many things I've flipped out about and gone against later, however I'm rather sure I've never flipped out about the 75% of member states thing, that should be made 50% really. I'll propose it I suppose because no one else seems to move to actually change things, they believe they can't be. A good example is the council, it'll never be open for the public to see...SaiKar wrote:The "consensus of the community" can't do crap. Time and time again we've tried to change things with no results whatsoever. River widths, Leng, set distance representation for a pixel's width. All went nowhere. The charter is specifically set up to avoid us being able to do things like that:75% of all member states. Good luck getting that many to turn up at ALL, let alone all be on the same page. There will always be a minority supporting the status quo for reasons like "it's always been that way" or "I don't see the point of change," which aren't actually real arguments for or against something, but they sure get tossed around a lot.11c)Ammendments may be added to the charter by a 50% majority vote of council members or a 75% majority vote of all member states in MCS.
Last time I pointed this out to Spangle he flipped out at me, so that'll probably happen again too.
See, that is the kind of thing I would be more likely to flip out about*, because I dislike this attitude of nothing changes, you ignore every time things actually change, it seems to be a case of "nothing changes except that which does change"SaiKar wrote:It was tempting, very tempting, to just take a copy of the MCS map, change it now I wanted it to look, appoint a council of people I trust, and announce that I'm accepting modifications in direct competition with the MCS. That's still on the table. But I have so many other irons in the fire. Maybe after Bastion gets on its feet.
*But I don't believe I'm flipping out now, if it seems such, that's a tad annoying... but I don't mean to be doing so.
[quote="SaiKar]In any event, yes. How do we encourage positive change staying within the boundaries of civility? I'm always willing to do that until it's absolutely proven to be impossible. But I don't see too many avenues open at the moment. We've been talking about staff change options for a long freaking time. I don't want this to be just another in a long line of threads on the topic that gets no new posts for a while and is forgotten.[/quote]
Then I'll write a admendment and propose it and encourage people to vote, because it's been proven that has got things done, it got the new charter in place (which is much better than the previous charter) and got the council open, everyone else believes change is impossible, and hence doesn't seem to attempt it...
Everything has changed since Pete left, the charter has been updated, under Pete's rule, everything happened by the unwritten rulebook, the one pete made and maintained in his mind, now it's clear what can and cannot be done.SaiKar wrote:Re Andreas: that guy is one of the hardest working and fairest people in the hobby that I have ever seen and that knucklehead Pete threw him out in one of the most insulting manners possible. I hope he stays out; he's too good for any system that allows that while it stands.
@Einhorn:
It is pretty steep... I hadn't really thought about it, I'll write up an admendment.
Now, this is another problem we have with the charter, it doesn't say how junior council members are appointed, it does say how full council members are appointed, when a full council member leaves, the junior takes his/her place. but with no way of getting a junior, it's a bit of an issue, so we need to work on an idea for that... straight vote? volunteers and chosen by council? competitions?
I'll write up our other 2 admendments
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Re: Cycling the staff
How are these two?
They would need voting on separately obviously.
Any suggestions?
I somewhat fear the first one making it though, as I wrote I realised it needs 50% majority, that's 3 council members, I'll vote AYE, but then you need 2 more, can't see Chrim or Vilhelm showing up, so it would rely on both Craitman and Pawel voting AYE
They would need voting on separately obviously.
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11e)Should a council member fail to make any votes or post in a "Register" thread in the "Administrative Council" subforum without having previously notified the Society of a Leave of Absence via "The LOA Thread" in the "Notices" Subforum for a period of two (2) weeks or fourteen (14) days, they will be sent a private message from another council member on the forum requesting their presence in the council, should they not appear within one (1) week or seven (7) days of this private message being sent, they will be retired from their post on the council.
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11f)For the purposes of increased member input in the way the society is ran amendment 11c shall be amended to require a 50% majority of member states to add a new amendment to the charter. A new amendment would be made by posting it in the claims forum and then having confirmed representatives from 50% of the nations on Micras sign in the claim thread announcing that they agree with the amendment.
I somewhat fear the first one making it though, as I wrote I realised it needs 50% majority, that's 3 council members, I'll vote AYE, but then you need 2 more, can't see Chrim or Vilhelm showing up, so it would rely on both Craitman and Pawel voting AYE
Re: Cycling the staff
Really should just make it so that anyone who doesn't vote is automatically assumed to have entered an abstain rather than counting against quota.
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Re: Cycling the staff
In which case when a claim goes in, only the first vote counts? If that?
Vote starts, no one has yet voted, all assumed to abstain, no stamp for tie
one person votes yes, 4 assumed abstain, yes stamp
one person votes no, 4 assumed abstain, no stamp
Vote starts, no one has yet voted, all assumed to abstain, no stamp for tie
one person votes yes, 4 assumed abstain, yes stamp
one person votes no, 4 assumed abstain, no stamp
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Re: Cycling the staff
Well I was trying to point out that you're missing a rather important qualifier there, you've said any nation that doesn't vote is assumed abstain, but not specified if it's "doesn't vote in a certain time span" or something, without that one could only assume they're all abstain straight away
Re: Cycling the staff
... and you accused me of trolling? It's far easier to just suggest that addition than to make a weird-case scenario where you know it should be there but leave it out. It's not like what I brought up was the finished product of an amendment anyway.
Re: Cycling the staff
Those look good Spangle. A simple half+1 majority is more than sufficient for any purpose.
As far as Jr. Members, volunteers voted in by the council as temporary replacements in the case of LOAs and full replacements in the event of abandonment. There should probably be 2 backups. They have no real authority until they are called to duty so it shouldn't be a problem. They really shouldn't even be marked as Staff unless/until they become permanent replacements. 2 should be enough for any situation I think.
However, we need at least 1 full time member to replace Benkern and possibly one for Chris.
As far as Jr. Members, volunteers voted in by the council as temporary replacements in the case of LOAs and full replacements in the event of abandonment. There should probably be 2 backups. They have no real authority until they are called to duty so it shouldn't be a problem. They really shouldn't even be marked as Staff unless/until they become permanent replacements. 2 should be enough for any situation I think.
However, we need at least 1 full time member to replace Benkern and possibly one for Chris.
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Re: Cycling the staff
Damn me for double posting but I'd like to get voting started on these amendments, how can we do this? We should also probably take care of replacing Benkern and delivering the ultimatum to Chris.
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