[BAT] removal discussion
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Re: [BAT] removal discussion
To be fair, Jack, you can moan all you like at the MCS's rules, but ultimately this comes down to being your own fault. If you'd not left Batavia, you'd have been able to submit a removal - or a mass-reduction and make Nova Batavia a successor state - or something - and have things move-on at a more fortunate pace. But as it is, this is all any of us can do. Okay, it's not the most favourable of situations for any of us, but whining at the MCS, its rules and how we work isn't going to make any difference to the fact it's on your shoulders why this has come about.
I'm not making this a personal attack, by the way, but I'm not going to let it slide having the MCS blamed for the Batavians' incompetence in failing to do things the right way in regards to ending their nation!
I'm not making this a personal attack, by the way, but I'm not going to let it slide having the MCS blamed for the Batavians' incompetence in failing to do things the right way in regards to ending their nation!
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
I'm not a hypocrite, I still don't really care about Batavia and didn't claim I did, but as far as I know I'm entitled to give my opinion.Jack wrote:Don't be a fucking hypocrite, Erasmus. You don't care about Batavia, as you have said multiple times.
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
I will state that I personally am fully in support of the Brettish Isles, I love the idea, I'm a citizen, and view it as a great successor to the large number of Anglo-themed micronations that have existed on Micras - premier among them one of my first micronations, New Britannia, which focused on the Edwardian period which shares many features of the Victorian theme of Jack's micronation. It has a lot of potential and I aim to be personally involved in its realisation. But as with Craitman and Eramus, my personal feelings don't come into my assessment of the situation. I find the argument that the Brettish Isles are a secessionist movement from Batavia *exceptionally* tenuous - it has no connection with Batavia except former citizens, and shared claimed land. Now, I would have to sit down and shut up if any of the activity associated with the Brettish Isles had actually occured during the founder's time as a Batavian, but it did not.
Formerly His Imperial Niftiness Yardistanislaus du Grifos, former Kaiser of Shireroth
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
For the record, I did post on the Batavian forums today and send an e-mail to the people there to see if we could jumpstart Batavia, but if there is no reply to that from the Batavian leaders I would prefer it if the MCS would ignore those post for the activity counting.
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
True of course, in hinsight, the events were rather clumsy and I realize that it would all have been easier if I was still a citizen of Batavia.
The problem however is that Batavia is blocking the opportunity for the Brettish Isles to get the territory we want, and I don't think that this is a good thing.
The problem however is that Batavia is blocking the opportunity for the Brettish Isles to get the territory we want, and I don't think that this is a good thing.
Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.
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Re: [BAT] removal discussion
In all fairness, even if Batavia were no longer on the map, the Brettish Isles are still currently too young to claim anyway, so they're hardly in the wayJack wrote:The problem however is that Batavia is blocking the opportunity for the Brettish Isles to get the territory we want, and I don't think that this is a good thing.
Assuming we'll be lenient and disregard the post made by Jezza (and yours from October), Batavia will be forcefully removed at the start of January at the earliest. By that time, the Brettish Isles will just be over two months-old, and old enough to claim. As no other nations will be able to claim Batavia's old land for the entirety of January, you don't have to worry about anyone jumping in before you, and you can submit the Brettish claim about a week before the "grace period" is over for us to vote on and, going from the support you have from the Council members, accept. That's the absolute earliest anything's going to happen without some sort of miraculous return of a high-standing Batavian to submit their own removal, so if you can't wait two more months, then you can't have too much faith in the Brettish Isles lasting that long!
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
The reason I want the claim as quick as possible is not that I want to see us on the map for vanity reasons or something, but the fact that we might very well engage in some military strubblings in the near future. And of course, that could be a little problematic with us not being on the map.
Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.
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Re: [BAT] removal discussion
A little bit of "unrecognised Brettish peoples" backstorying would sort that instance out. In fact, things like this can be made into a positive by putting them into the perspective of in-sim history, as I believe Victoria did when they were delayed in claiming due to the Imperium Incognito's forced removal time (the closest precedent I can think for this)...Jack wrote:The reason I want the claim as quick as possible is not that I want to see us on the map for vanity reasons or something, but the fact that we might very well engage in some military strubblings in the near future. And of course, that could be a little problematic with us not being on the map.
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
Since I joined Batavia before the split into St Anna/Koningenwaarde, under the pseudonym Kiliaen Van Tassel, I'm still technically a citizen of both. Although I earlier tried to submit a removal for St. Anna, that matter sorted itself out as some others came around to insist it was still alive (even though the reality is that it's dead). I contributed some in founding New Willow on the ruins of Old Willow before the split, although it eventually became too difficult for me to constantly translate the Dutch, so I didn't do much else. Nonetheless, I never resigned my citizenship. So, in consideration of the above, I should like to think that as a still present citizen of Batavia I can either claim it for myself or submit a removal with the Brettish Isles as a successor in Nova Batavia.
I will, in fairness, wait to see if anyone responds to Erasmus' summons. But if not, then I think my position is legitimate enough to lobby for removal/succession.
I will, in fairness, wait to see if anyone responds to Erasmus' summons. But if not, then I think my position is legitimate enough to lobby for removal/succession.
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
Since we're bending the rules for the Brettish Isles anyway I'm sure we can add that fiction too and just ignore that you never represented Batavia in any way. I just don't see the point, plenty of unclaimed islands on the map already.
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Re: [BAT] removal discussion
I did think of that when I said "Nations can remove themselves at any time, regardless of activity levels, as long as an official representative submits it (and it's not against the wishes of the nation's government)"Orion wrote:Although I earlier tried to submit a removal for St. Anna, that matter sorted itself out as some others came around to insist it was still alive (even though the reality is that it's dead).
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
If it's been arbitrarily abandoned with no plan, then a national government doesn't really have any wishes, does it?Craitman wrote:I did think of that when I said "Nations can remove themselves at any time, regardless of activity levels, as long as an official representative submits it (and it's not against the wishes of the nation's government)"
The Brettish Isles are firmly established in their present position. I've written a good deal of well-researched background for Willowshire providing for the long history of that area, in direct relation to its geographical position. To move the Brettish Isles somewhere else would be to sacrifice all that's been written and force us to start all over again. Which is more important? Clearing space for a new nation that has taken the effort to recognize and incorporate the historical background, or to force it to be relocated in favor of retaining a dead project? If the Brettish Isles had only just established itself, or was not incorporating aspects of its pre-history, such as New Brittania, then I would not object to moving it to open space. But that is not the case here.Jezza Rasmus wrote:Since we're bending the rules for the Brettish Isles anyway I'm sure we can add that fiction too and just ignore that you never represented Batavia in any way. I just don't see the point, plenty of unclaimed islands on the map already.
Re: [BAT] removal discussion
I wholeheartly agree with Orion here. The current location of the Brettish Isles is not picked random.
And it is not that the Batavians have done a lot with the islands. In fact, the only people who have ever written something about the islands are Orion and me, I think that this gives us some claim on the land.
And it is not that the Batavians have done a lot with the islands. In fact, the only people who have ever written something about the islands are Orion and me, I think that this gives us some claim on the land.
Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.
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Re: [BAT] removal discussion
Under the current Charter, where the average posts of a member has become less than 1 post per day in a 60-day period, the Council can force a reduction.
Why not use this? There is clearly no future for Batavia's role on those islands, and Jack and his team seem to really want to develop them.
Come on...
Why not use this? There is clearly no future for Batavia's role on those islands, and Jack and his team seem to really want to develop them.
Come on...
Elijah Ayreon the Dead
(Ric)
(Ric)
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Re: [BAT] removal discussion
I don't think that rule has been used for a long time due to the rise in Wiki nations claiming.