Community fair use policy
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Community fair use policy
In recent times it has appeared that there has been some problems where some Micrasians have claimed that others with no connection to their nation, and without their permission, have used the intellectual property of their nation in ways that are at best, not inkeeping with the wishes of the owner, or at worst, used in an antagonistic way.
Without wanting to provide specific examples, and I'd kindly ask people responding to this to refrain from providing them/name-calling/the like, it is within this community's interests to establish a basic rulebook about what is and what isn't allowed.
This rulebook should be kept a short as possible so we can allow a larger variety of development without constantly needing to check back to determine whether or not what we are doing is okay, but enough so that we are all familiar with what is an what isn't acceptable, and so that as a community we are equipped to dealing with people who chose to break such rules.
Without wanting to provide specific examples, and I'd kindly ask people responding to this to refrain from providing them/name-calling/the like, it is within this community's interests to establish a basic rulebook about what is and what isn't allowed.
This rulebook should be kept a short as possible so we can allow a larger variety of development without constantly needing to check back to determine whether or not what we are doing is okay, but enough so that we are all familiar with what is an what isn't acceptable, and so that as a community we are equipped to dealing with people who chose to break such rules.
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Re: Community fair use policy
I know that people may view it differently but I would be willing to accept a certain level of, shall we say "narrative friction", so long as participants are able to show their workings, a chain or sequence of events leading up to a certain action being undertaken which might otherwise be against a particular player's wishes - so that the other side can say "well, this is how we came to this point" so that an OOC conversation can then ensue as to what is or is not mutually agreed.
Generally I am, to put it mildly, pro-conflict since it is a driver of narrative and thereby of world building. My only requirement is that it makes sense, and that if someone really does want to opt out, they can without being obliged to remove themselves from the sector entirely. An instance of this is how during the era of Minarboria and Shireroth both being viable powers me and Kras were able to build around the premise of an ongoing military tension and arms race between the two powers whilst respecting Kras' and Rossheim's adamant insistence on not wanting the cold war to go hot at any point.
The main thing is that there has to be a certain logical consistency both parties can agree to, so that you don't end up with a situation where say the abrogating of a treaty by one party results in another saying that the entire ethno-religious of the opponent's state changes overnight in consequence.
I suppose the easiest and most straightforward way is to say that the person(s) who exercise authority over a recognised MCS claim should have the final say on what does or does not happen within their territory, and that where they come into a conflict with another individual or group that how that plays out is agreed upon in advance, at least in terms of methodology if not in terms of actual outcome.
Apologies for the rambling. Long day.
Generally I am, to put it mildly, pro-conflict since it is a driver of narrative and thereby of world building. My only requirement is that it makes sense, and that if someone really does want to opt out, they can without being obliged to remove themselves from the sector entirely. An instance of this is how during the era of Minarboria and Shireroth both being viable powers me and Kras were able to build around the premise of an ongoing military tension and arms race between the two powers whilst respecting Kras' and Rossheim's adamant insistence on not wanting the cold war to go hot at any point.
The main thing is that there has to be a certain logical consistency both parties can agree to, so that you don't end up with a situation where say the abrogating of a treaty by one party results in another saying that the entire ethno-religious of the opponent's state changes overnight in consequence.
I suppose the easiest and most straightforward way is to say that the person(s) who exercise authority over a recognised MCS claim should have the final say on what does or does not happen within their territory, and that where they come into a conflict with another individual or group that how that plays out is agreed upon in advance, at least in terms of methodology if not in terms of actual outcome.
Apologies for the rambling. Long day.
Last edited by Continuator on Wed May 08, 2019 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
Re: Community fair use policy
Agreed, for the most part. I think the main problem arises now that we have a lot of single person nations. Whilst most are either in the "we'll fight anyone who wants it" or "we're staying out of this shit" camps, a lot of wars are planned meticulously behind the scenes (I remember that the Senyan-Jingdao scrap was all planned behind the scenes between Jonas and I, including the prolonged period of tension that we agreed could be used for storylines but nothing that would actually bring about a military confrontation). It also should be noted that when people change their minds, or maybe want to give their nation a new start, it's often coming from a view of wanting to do something new in the sector, and holding people to old conflicts, organisations or economic unions only serves to disillusion people from this hobby, which is the last thing we want to encourage.Continuator wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 9:46 pmI know that people may view it differently but I would be willing to accept a certain level of, shall we say "narrative friction", so long as participants are able to show their workings, a chain or sequence of events leading up to a certain action being undertaken which might otherwise be against a particular player's wishes - so that the other side can say "well, this is how we came to this point" so that an OOC conversation can then ensue as to what is or is not mutually agreed.
Generally I am, to put it mildly, pro-conflict since it is a driver of narrative and thereby of world building. My only requirement is that it makes sense, and that if someone really does want to opt out, they can without being obliged to remove themselves from the sector entirely.
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Re: Community fair use policy
Likewise I'd agree on those points. There have been plenty of times where individuals have wanted to do a hard reboot on their particular projects, and they should probably be afforded the courtesy of respect when it comes to restarting their diplomatic positions as well.Senya wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 10:01 pmAgreed, for the most part. I think the main problem arises now that we have a lot of single person nations. Whilst most are either in the "we'll fight anyone who wants it" or "we're staying out of this shit" camps, a lot of wars are planned meticulously behind the scenes (I remember that the Senyan-Jingdao scrap was all planned behind the scenes between Jonas and I, including the prolonged period of tension that we agreed could be used for storylines but nothing that would actually bring about a military confrontation). It also should be noted that when people change their minds, or maybe want to give their nation a new start, it's often coming from a view of wanting to do something new in the sector, and holding people to old conflicts, organisations or economic unions only serves to disillusion people from this hobby, which is the last thing we want to encourage.Continuator wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 9:46 pmI know that people may view it differently but I would be willing to accept a certain level of, shall we say "narrative friction", so long as participants are able to show their workings, a chain or sequence of events leading up to a certain action being undertaken which might otherwise be against a particular player's wishes - so that the other side can say "well, this is how we came to this point" so that an OOC conversation can then ensue as to what is or is not mutually agreed.
Generally I am, to put it mildly, pro-conflict since it is a driver of narrative and thereby of world building. My only requirement is that it makes sense, and that if someone really does want to opt out, they can without being obliged to remove themselves from the sector entirely.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
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Re: Community fair use policy
Ultimately, we have to consider where the line is drawn between fair and unfair use of everyone's intellectual creations. Using my own nation as an example, and for things that I've personally seen and addressed perfectly reasonably with others to work fairly:
Creating a Craitish footballer from scratch for your league: fine. Proviso: give him a proper Craitish name.
Adopting ólbescból as a sport played in your nation: sure. Proviso: it can't be professional.
Including Craitish migrants in your census data: absolutely. Proviso: keep the numbers realistic!
But if you feel like you want to take control of anything Craitish or Craitland-related (land, football teams, companies, political parties, etc) without my explicit permission, then definitely not. Not even with a proviso. However, I can certainly appreciate that IC developments might not allow for an immediate severing of ties between things if one party changes their mind midway through something, but doing so is still their prerogative. If they no longer give you OOC permission to use their creations, then you're going to have to get creative and figure-out how to explain that loss IC, rather than belligerently going against the creator's wishes.
Creating a Craitish footballer from scratch for your league: fine. Proviso: give him a proper Craitish name.
Adopting ólbescból as a sport played in your nation: sure. Proviso: it can't be professional.
Including Craitish migrants in your census data: absolutely. Proviso: keep the numbers realistic!
But if you feel like you want to take control of anything Craitish or Craitland-related (land, football teams, companies, political parties, etc) without my explicit permission, then definitely not. Not even with a proviso. However, I can certainly appreciate that IC developments might not allow for an immediate severing of ties between things if one party changes their mind midway through something, but doing so is still their prerogative. If they no longer give you OOC permission to use their creations, then you're going to have to get creative and figure-out how to explain that loss IC, rather than belligerently going against the creator's wishes.
Re: Community fair use policy
To me, the content of a fair use policy is of secondary interest; I think the majority of us share a workable consensus on where our creative boundaries are delineated and have been successfully operating within them for some years (my own sentiments are similar to those expressed above), although I recognise that we're leaving too much to chance by maintaining that arrangement and have arguably been in a state of complacency about it for too long.
I'm more interested in how such an agreement would be a) converted into a codified instrument, b) enforced for the community good in the face of uncooperative violators, c) who would be responsible for its final interpretation and c) the extent of such a regime in terms of intermicronational entities, webspaces etc. I'm of the opinion that if this is to work, every entity represented on this forum should be subject to it as a minimum; ideally an undertaking to enforce it in all webspaces would also be added to the MCS terms of membership.
I'm more interested in how such an agreement would be a) converted into a codified instrument, b) enforced for the community good in the face of uncooperative violators, c) who would be responsible for its final interpretation and c) the extent of such a regime in terms of intermicronational entities, webspaces etc. I'm of the opinion that if this is to work, every entity represented on this forum should be subject to it as a minimum; ideally an undertaking to enforce it in all webspaces would also be added to the MCS terms of membership.
Re: Community fair use policy
I have to say this is my primary concern too. As I stated previously, I don't think this should be some long list of terms and conditions, potentially it should only be two or three vague bullet points that would be enforced and decided upon by the council. I would also recommend that any official guidelines would require the confidence of at least 75% of MCS members to support.Yastreb wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 2:14 pmI'm more interested in how such an agreement would be a) converted into a codified instrument, b) enforced for the community good in the face of uncooperative violators, c) who would be responsible for its final interpretation and c) the extent of such a regime in terms of intermicronational entities, webspaces etc. I'm of the opinion that if this is to work, every entity represented on this forum should be subject to it as a minimum; ideally an undertaking to enforce it in all webspaces would also be added to the MCS terms of membership.
I think it may even take the shape of a complaint being submitted to the council to require it, after an (good and honest) attempt at resolving disputes, rather than the council taking on extra leg work to search through various forums, wiki pages and websites to find potential infractions. In terms of punishments, I think we could use anything from simply politely asking to potentially kicking a nation off the map (only in the very extreme cases in which someone was repeatedly ignoring our ruling and being particularly antagonistic with their IC claims).
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Re: Community fair use policy
In regards to punishment - at least under the Charter's current clauses - amending the claims (including removal) of a nation that fell foul of an unofficial fair use policy would not be possible. We would have to accept this as more than an agreement and adopt it as an MCS policy to be able to enact such sanctions. If such an amendment were to not pass among members and not be added to the Charter, then forum and wiki bans and suspensions would be the most obvious means of punishment for offenders who don't take kindly to politely being asked to stop.
In either case, I'm on board with Barnaby's suggestion that such infringements be brought forward to the Council by wronged parties, rather than there being any expectation for us to be able to discern what's unfair from our limited ability to view everywhere on Micras...
In either case, I'm on board with Barnaby's suggestion that such infringements be brought forward to the Council by wronged parties, rather than there being any expectation for us to be able to discern what's unfair from our limited ability to view everywhere on Micras...
Re: Community fair use policy
I would rather have a long list of terms and conditions than a few vague bullet points, that they may be used as a weapon against wrongdoers. Likewise, I would like to be able to not only eject and ban such wrongdoers from the MCS but unperson them as well if necessary.Senya wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:02 pmI have to say this is my primary concern too. As I stated previously, I don't think this should be some long list of terms and conditions, potentially it should only be two or three vague bullet points that would be enforced and decided upon by the council. I would also recommend that any official guidelines would require the confidence of at least 75% of MCS members to support.Yastreb wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 2:14 pmI'm more interested in how such an agreement would be a) converted into a codified instrument, b) enforced for the community good in the face of uncooperative violators, c) who would be responsible for its final interpretation and c) the extent of such a regime in terms of intermicronational entities, webspaces etc. I'm of the opinion that if this is to work, every entity represented on this forum should be subject to it as a minimum; ideally an undertaking to enforce it in all webspaces would also be added to the MCS terms of membership.
Why not? o_o
Hâlian, Magic: The Gathering player/baseball and gridiron fan/computer guy/conlinguist and worldbuilder/tabletop and video game fan too
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Re: Community fair use policy
Because I said so and it's my creation. That's how this policy will work...
Re: Community fair use policy
I'd prefer not executing real people, Halian...unperson — a dead person, usually executed, whose existence is excised from public and private memory in Oceania
Re: Community fair use policy
It's all well and good coming up with lengthy specific lists of violations and bans for them, but almost certainly there would then be issues where someone would do something that most of us would consider acceptable but would technically be in violation of a rule.Hālian wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:30 amI would rather have a long list of terms and conditions than a few vague bullet points, that they may be used as a weapon against wrongdoers. Likewise, I would like to be able to not only eject and ban such wrongdoers from the MCS but unperson them as well if necessary.Senya wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:02 pmI have to say this is my primary concern too. As I stated previously, I don't think this should be some long list of terms and conditions, potentially it should only be two or three vague bullet points that would be enforced and decided upon by the council. I would also recommend that any official guidelines would require the confidence of at least 75% of MCS members to support.
The whole point of this proposal is to give us some measure to deal with the (and I should emphasise this) rare cases in which someone is not playing ball. We've never had an issue where a number of people at once are being uncouth, usually it's 1 or 2 people from time to time, so it's not really worth drafting a long list of offences and punishments.
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Re: Community fair use policy
I look forward to the implementation of fair use policies by the MCS.
I think this is the site you're looking for. Now please, carry on.
""YJD: Een Recwar is prima zolang Bijaro niet deelneemt."
Re: Community fair use policy
Yes but why the knee-jerk reaction to the notion of professional ólbescból outside Craitland? This is the first I've heard of professionalism in a given sport being expressly forbidden outside its home country.
Then why bother tolerating input from anyone else?
I'd prefer not having other people put words in my mouth. (Emphasis mine.)
Include at the end a general article covering any behavior not expressly proscribed.Senya wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 10:46 pmIt's all well and good coming up with lengthy specific lists of violations and bans for them, but almost certainly there would then be issues where someone would do something that most of us would consider acceptable but would technically be in violation of a rule.Hālian wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:30 amI would rather have a long list of terms and conditions than a few vague bullet points, that they may be used as a weapon against wrongdoers. Likewise, I would like to be able to not only eject and ban such wrongdoers from the MCS but unperson them as well if necessary.Senya wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 10:02 pmI have to say this is my primary concern too. As I stated previously, I don't think this should be some long list of terms and conditions, potentially it should only be two or three vague bullet points that would be enforced and decided upon by the council. I would also recommend that any official guidelines would require the confidence of at least 75% of MCS members to support.
Hâlian, Magic: The Gathering player/baseball and gridiron fan/computer guy/conlinguist and worldbuilder/tabletop and video game fan too
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Re: Community fair use policy
Same reason you wouldn't want anyone claiming to do something Hoennese better than you do it?