Reform
Re: Reform
Your ARMS idea is impractical to the core. It's another layer of management covering up systems that barely ever worked to begin with. You can form a body to keep ruling charters if you want, but I cannot imagine anyone taking advantage of it as anything more than an archive. It won't change much about the fact that recwarring seems to be a concept that people like but rarely want to engage in. The only reasonable explination I can think of is that people must not feel that the current recwarring systems meet their want and needs. So how is getting a bunch of these things in one place going to help?
You shouldn't be saying things like "I look forward to hearing people's views!" when you're going to make douchey comments like that. The majority of it wasn't even directed at you. I mostly think I'm on to something with that last statement.
Well, I've known why people tend to dislike you for a while now, so I guess we're even.Lord_Montague wrote:Now I know why people tend to dislike you.
You shouldn't be saying things like "I look forward to hearing people's views!" when you're going to make douchey comments like that. The majority of it wasn't even directed at you. I mostly think I'm on to something with that last statement.
- Guido Zambelis
- Posts: 2854
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:26 pm
Re: Reform
You funny man, make me a laugh.Guido Zambelis wrote:You really are very confrontational, it's just not necessary.
Anyway, back on task, I did not originally get the impression you were simply trying to create a library of RecWar systems. Making an archive with easy access to every system available with which to conduct a Rec War and have judges on hand to help moderate them regardless of the system chosen is a much better idea than what I (and probably SaiKar as well) though it was: YARWS (Yet Another Rec War System.) There's no need for an administrative body though, just one person willing to bring all the different systems to one place and keep them organized, maybe give little summaries of each system so people can choose, then have go-to judges.
An archive which displays, unbiased, all the options available for Rec Warring is an idea I support much more than a big Rec War regulatory committee. As for permanent war, it's a non-issue. If someone wants to invade another and they agree, they will end up going to the Rec War place anyway. It's an unnecessary layer of bureaucratic nonsense to create some meaningless opt-in / opt-out thing that people can deal with on an individual basis if they feel like it. In regards to permanent war though, a better thing to do is to determine how to make Rec Warring for conquest mesh with the Micras rules for holding territory.
His Incomparable Highness,
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir
Re: Reform
Yeah. I'm not going to deny it. On the flipside, recwarring is basically dead and I was under the impression that most of are here to try to brainstorm ideas to help fix it. I don't think Montague's idea is a very likely solution, so rather than us trying it, feeling good about making "positive change," and then waiting through another few dry years, I think maybe we should try to think of something else.Guido Zambelis wrote:You really are very confrontational, it's just not necessary.
The good King Ailin seems to be thinking along what I am. An appointed body isn’t going to work. It’s hard to keep people interested in projects like this for the long term. Even the MCS has trouble with keeping their voters active, and they’re easily our sector’s most influential single organization. A single, dedicated person could do something like ARMS (putting aside for the moment other objections) but, once the archive is set up, well, then what? Sit around and hope someone wants you to run a war for them? That's what this forum is for. It’s not being used.
- Lord_Montague
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:39 pm
Re: Reform
Oh do tell! I love a bit of gossip!Well, I've known why people tend to dislike you for a while now, so I guess we're even.
Suprisingly I disagree with you and your insights into the micronational community, particularly recwarring. As much as you may think you're a sage, you're not. You do not have a monopoly on ideas or the way that Micras works and the statements of profound truth you make about issues are as irritating as sniffing pepper.
I personally don't think Annunia is broke but I've had my ear chewed off about how unrealistic it is for years now and its gotten to the point now where people don't want to battle with it (what I view as the main reason behind why recwar doesn't work isn't apathy towards the concept but problems with the Annunia charter held as the standard). Thats why I propose letting people bring their own into one central place for recwars to be carried out in.
As for the management system, I'm not sure how much you know of the recwarring system Ailin but there needs to be management so as to allow anyone to judge to know of the decisions already made (the common law). Its complex as the judges don't give a straightforward ruling and then of course you have comments said by the way (the obiters) which means that you need someone to deal with that at the very least. And the same goes for the point costing, especially if you use a system like the ZRS.
In Battle; Unbeatable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
- Guido Zambelis
- Posts: 2854
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:26 pm
Re: Reform
Is this supposed to be an insult or a joke?King Ailin of Uantir wrote:You funny man, make me a laugh.Guido Zambelis wrote:You really are very confrontational, it's just not necessary.
Re: Reform
Neither Guido, it made me laugh.
I'm not going to say I'm ignorant of RecWarring, since I'm the appointed Common Law guy for the Annunia Convention right now. As such I've been reading a lot and a lot of Rec War archives. There is a difference between a center for Rec War systems (like a library) and a Rec War uber-union. It's a great idea to, instead of making Annunia the go to end all be all of Rec Warring, making other systems as easily accessible. I like that idea. I like the idea of having a place to go to with people on stand by to Judge / Moderate / DM - whatever. What isn't a good idea is to have a central authority deciding how each system should be run. In example, the ARMS would offer the Annunia Convention as an option, but the Convention would remain as it is, administrated in its own way. Now if the ARMS took over the Convention and decided how it should be run, and did the same with the other systems as well, I blow my nose at it.
I'm not going to say I'm ignorant of RecWarring, since I'm the appointed Common Law guy for the Annunia Convention right now. As such I've been reading a lot and a lot of Rec War archives. There is a difference between a center for Rec War systems (like a library) and a Rec War uber-union. It's a great idea to, instead of making Annunia the go to end all be all of Rec Warring, making other systems as easily accessible. I like that idea. I like the idea of having a place to go to with people on stand by to Judge / Moderate / DM - whatever. What isn't a good idea is to have a central authority deciding how each system should be run. In example, the ARMS would offer the Annunia Convention as an option, but the Convention would remain as it is, administrated in its own way. Now if the ARMS took over the Convention and decided how it should be run, and did the same with the other systems as well, I blow my nose at it.
His Incomparable Highness,
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir
Re: Reform
You still don't get it. You think this is some sort of battle of wills, as if I am trying to convince you of anything. My words are meaningless, mere observations more than debate. All I am ever saying is that the current system is not attracting people. THAT is what you are arguing against here, not me. You can say "Yay Annunia! Annunia is rad!" all you want, but if people aren't starting wars using it, then your analysis rings hollow. I don't have to win you over to my side on this, because even if I say nothing it doesn't change the truth of the matter. I don't even really want to convince you. You being wrong is a hell of a lot more hilarious than you being right.Lord_Montague wrote:Suprisingly I disagree with you and your insights into the micronational community, particularly recwarring. As much as you may think you're a sage, you're not. You do not have a monopoly on ideas or the way that Micras works and the statements of profound truth you make about issues are as irritating as sniffing pepper.
Anyway, I'm not quite sure what the future of RecWarring is, but I'm mostly convinced it's not Annunia, and I'm almost certain it doesn't involve you or your current viewpoints at all. You can keep being petty here. It won't bother anything.
- Guido Zambelis
- Posts: 2854
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:26 pm
Re: Reform
I'm not entirely sure how you have added anything remotely constructive to this conversation at all. If you don't like Annunia, change it. Saying "your ideas are stupid, this won't change anything" is absurdly transparent.
Re: Reform
In my experience, the hardest part about solving a problem is getting everyone involved to admit that the situation is a problem in the first place. You always have a few straglers that insist that everything is fine and nothing is broken.
As for my proposed solutions, Andreas largely covered them. I have believed for some time that the Advance Wars model is viable. Even if we don't end up playing games online via the website he linked to, the game itself is incredibly robost when it comes to quantiative movement and damage formulas between mixed units, tactical enough so that an unplanned full rush can be devastating to your forces but a few key tactical units that take advantage of the enemy's current weakpoints can break them entirely, yet simple enough to pick up and learn on the fly. There's a lot we could adapt from it. I could see Annunia being modified to function like that. We could even keep most of the current point costs but merely add better rules for actually engaging and defeating the enemy.
As for my proposed solutions, Andreas largely covered them. I have believed for some time that the Advance Wars model is viable. Even if we don't end up playing games online via the website he linked to, the game itself is incredibly robost when it comes to quantiative movement and damage formulas between mixed units, tactical enough so that an unplanned full rush can be devastating to your forces but a few key tactical units that take advantage of the enemy's current weakpoints can break them entirely, yet simple enough to pick up and learn on the fly. There's a lot we could adapt from it. I could see Annunia being modified to function like that. We could even keep most of the current point costs but merely add better rules for actually engaging and defeating the enemy.
- Lord_Montague
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:39 pm
Re: Reform
So what you're saying is that all recwars should be done by Advance Wars? Because that's what it sounds like to me.
As for the comments before that I wonder how you can function being so contradictory. Your words are meaningless before preaching that you have removed the light of truth from underneath the bushell of ignorance by virtue of them? You do not attempt to convince me because you are right regardless? How arrogant are you? Seriously, its like pepper.
And Ailin, I'd blow my nose at it too. Annunia's Board could easily be amended out in the convention that ARMS would offer and even if it was decided that ARMS should take up the administrative functions of the board it would not mean that any other recwarring charters would be put under the kibosh of admistration by ARMS.
As for the comments before that I wonder how you can function being so contradictory. Your words are meaningless before preaching that you have removed the light of truth from underneath the bushell of ignorance by virtue of them? You do not attempt to convince me because you are right regardless? How arrogant are you? Seriously, its like pepper.
And Ailin, I'd blow my nose at it too. Annunia's Board could easily be amended out in the convention that ARMS would offer and even if it was decided that ARMS should take up the administrative functions of the board it would not mean that any other recwarring charters would be put under the kibosh of admistration by ARMS.
In Battle; Unbeatable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
Re: Reform
I'm right behind these reforms, as Montague said.
...Also, Harvey, your assertion that nobody cares about recwaring also applies to your advancewars plan, and similarly invalidates it in your own argument. Double standard methinks.
...Also, Harvey, your assertion that nobody cares about recwaring also applies to your advancewars plan, and similarly invalidates it in your own argument. Double standard methinks.
Re: Reform
I am behind a Rec War Library that makes it easier for nations to decide the systems they want to use in the event of a Rec War. I don't support anything beyond that.
His Incomparable Highness,
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir
- Scott Alexander
- Special Map Cartographer
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Re: Reform
King Ailin, D&D mass combat sounds like our best lead so far. When I google it, I get a link to a rulebook called "Cry Havoc", which I don't have and don't want to buy just to look at it. Do you know of something similar but free online, or can you explain what kind of thing you're thinking of when you say that?
Scott Alexander | Autokrator of Archipelago (What is Archipelago?)
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Illustrious Founder of the MCS, and sometime Special Cartographer
Re: Reform
Overview and a loose rules set is available here and here and here. The former link is a bit more homebrew, but comes with a combat generator / tracker program of sorts.
A lot of it may not make sense if you're not familiar with d20 style role playing games. Being an avid gamer, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have (perhaps, if this gets involved, we may open up a new thread on it.)
It's just enough to get a taste of the system and run a basic mass combat scenario. The full rule sets in the Heroes book and the Havoc books I can get on PDF if you can settle that with your copyright conscience.
Since DnD is a medieval fantasy game, it is geared toward hand to hand / archery / magic combat, but DnD itself comes with plenty of rules to convert to modern settings, as well as having a d20 Modern spin off hand book which can all be used to 'update' the rules.
A lot of it may not make sense if you're not familiar with d20 style role playing games. Being an avid gamer, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have (perhaps, if this gets involved, we may open up a new thread on it.)
It's just enough to get a taste of the system and run a basic mass combat scenario. The full rule sets in the Heroes book and the Havoc books I can get on PDF if you can settle that with your copyright conscience.
Since DnD is a medieval fantasy game, it is geared toward hand to hand / archery / magic combat, but DnD itself comes with plenty of rules to convert to modern settings, as well as having a d20 Modern spin off hand book which can all be used to 'update' the rules.
His Incomparable Highness,
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir
His Matchless Grace,
His Majestic Honor,
His Eminent Splendor,
His Chivalrous Eminence,
The Rook
Lord Protector of Uantir