[JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk airsp.
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[JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk airsp.
1. Malliki Tosha
2. Timoteos Stefanosigos
3. I'm inserting my comments in bold in the text posted by Stefanosigos in this post:
OOC: In order to avoid multiplying posts about one "defence move", I will write also about the air forces of Paulos Petrosigos. I consulted this with him and he will confirm this below my post.
Malliki Tosha wrote:
5 B-52s can carry a total of 157 tons of bombs. They have been dropped on the national park with an area of roughly 7,800 square kilometers, meaning about 20 kilos per square kilometer.
And the most popular bombs (i.e. Mark 82), weight about 250 kg kilos. So, this will be about 1 bomb per 12 square kilometers... I wouldn't call this "heavy carpet-bombing", but I won't quarell with Ryan's way of expressing.
Malliki Tosha wrote:
Also, I don't know what other people do here, but I only look at the summary so I know what to reply to.
Ok, it's fair that only writed here or send to judges should be counted, but I don't get why the "story" should be less important on binding then summary.
Malliki Tosha wrote:
(Note: According to WP the maximum altitude for the Stinger missile is 3 800 meters.)
And for Alvis Stormer HVM (which is also included in Annunia Convention as default AA unit) maximum range (and altitude) is 7 000 meters. I can agree it's not very consistent, but I think it's a little unfair, that Ryan declared "altitude just over AA range" without declaring what he belives to be that range. I accept that his aircraft can fly over the range, i.e. at 15 thousands meters, but he declared to be 500 ft over fire range which he couldn't know for sure, and which, as Pawel said, is only an approximation. In my story and summary I assumed, that he was just at the end of effective fire range - and some of our missiles were capable to hit him.
The range of the Stinger missile used in the Avenger system and the Starstreak missile used in the Alvis Stormer system is public knowledge. A quick Google or Wikipedia search will tell you the range in a matter of minutes. To claim that Ryan couldn't have known about it because he didn't spell it out is laughable. Especially if you take this extremely public and uncontested post into consideration.
Quote:
- Hoplon One, it's Loco Four. I've got enemy group at the radar. They're heading south, at 23 thousand feets. If they remain on course and current speed they will be over Montauk in about... (counting) 45 minutes. It's about ten to fifteen aircrafts, and I'm sure there are some heavy bombers with them.
- OK, Loco Four. Remain on stealth and follow this group, but don't get too close to them. Report if anything changes. Over. - the officer in the air command remained calm. He called to commander of the Surmenian Forces...
As far as I know, 23 000 feet is not over AA range. Also, I believe that the enemy can't tell us what altitude we're flying on. If it's unclear, they should ask, not just declare this.
5 minutes later, in 1st Surmenian Group HQ...
- More then ten aircrafts? Heading our direction? About 40 minutes? All right, thank you. So, I want all our fighters over island and ready to stop them at the moment, those on patrol duty joins if they have enough fuel for air fight. The same about stealth fighters. Keep me up to date. Thanks. - general Andreosigos hanged up and taken another phone. - Colonel, sound the alarm. We got enemy air group at bay. They will be there in about 40 minutes. What? No, we don't know yet where they are going to drop bombs, but we will see when they will be lowering before the attack. Yes, all AA guns and missile launchers at full alarm. And inform all land commanders and President Abramowicz about the situation.
What fighters over Montauk? There has been no post by the Interlandian side launching air operations over Montauk. If the move was secret, we should still have been informed since the radar carried by the E-2D Hawkeye can see the airspace over the entire island. No planes have been launched by Stefanosigos, and the fighters based on Pawel's carrier and Camel's carrier (which I suppose they are) have not been launched and not been seen by any of the E-2Ds. In this post, I extended Combat Air Patrol over my 2nd Carrier Strike Group with embedded Phalanx forces to cover the island as well, but only over 9 000 meters to stay out of AA range. The range of the Sidewinder missile carried by my fighters (among other missiles) has a maximum range of 14 km, so they can engage fighters on low altitudes as well.
Half an hour later, about 9 km over the west Montauk.
- All right lads, we've will got them on the radars in about 5 minutes. - major Monologosigos informed other pilots of his group. - Remember, we have chance to intercept them by suprise...
Again, these fighters have never been launched, and if they were by secret move, they should have been spotted by my E-2Ds long ago. They should also immediately have been engaged by my fighters flying CAP over Montauk +9 000 meters.
At the same time, at the ground
- Our missiles missed the target, sir! - reported shooter of missile AA system.
- Dear Jsom, what they are doing? - commander of "24 AA Defence Position", which was the official title for his Alvis Stormer Air Defence System, couldn't belive his eyes, while observing on radar and on air the enemy bombers dropping... single bombs with big interval between each drop.
Amendment: Okay, let's say all bombs were Mark 82s, weighing 250 kg each. That means 628 bombs in total. That doesn't sound like "single bombs with big interval between each drop".
- I don't know sir, but it's totally weird. Should we launch another salvo? - asked the shooter.
- No, they're at the end of our range, maybe one or two of our missiles would hit them if we're lucky, but the others would be wasted - just like 90% of their bombs. Besides, in about 5 minutes our fighters will engage them. We should better get some cover. Their bombing tactics may be weird and totally useless - but I dont want to end with fu***n "one-for-million-chance-bomb" on my head. So - stop the fire and go on.
4 minutes and 30 seconds later, about 9 km over the west Montauk
- Their escort fighters are coming. Thirty seconds to contact! Good luck and Jsom bless us all! - Monologosigos with steady voice gave his last orders to his group. It was also his last words at all. 27 seconds later his fighter was hit by enemy missile which wasn't fooled by his aircraft defence system.
Summary - The land forces was prepared to recive the bombing, thanks to stealth fighter scouting the strait, which discover the group long before the attack. Air defence opened fire at the enemy which was at the end of efective range and do only a little damage, then cease to fire before the air forces of Petrosigos 2nd Surmenian Group engaged enemy. During fight we managed to break through escort fighters and to attack the enemy bombers. After about thirthy minute fight, our aircrafts disengage from enemy and returned to base. After that, returning aircrafts of enemy was shooted by air-defence again - in hope, that due to duels and/or damages taken they are forced to lower their altitude.
I fail to understand how fighters (that have never been launched) can avoid being engaged by my fighters flying CAP over Montauk. Apparently they can also not be seen by my E-2Ds (I'm talking about the non-stealth fighters). In saying that he broke through the escort fighters he is god-modding.
Losses
The so-called "carpet" bombing was mostly unsucessfull due to loose dropping of bombs over a big, uninhabited forest region. Defending forces lost 4 soldiers and a truck in explosion of one of them, several roads and civilian buldings were also lightly damaged.
Sounds a bit low, imho. Also, out of 628 bombs, two hit something military? Finally, the national park is apparently a "big, uninhabited forest region" with "several roads and civilian buildings". Just sayin'...
In airfight we lose three of nine present fighters and none of two present stealth fighters. One was hit by missile from distance (missiles was launched by both sides at the beginning of this battle) and two destroyed in close combat duels.
Yeah.
4. See bold text above.
5. I don't know. If I have to use JPs every time the Interlandian side acts, this is going to be a very long and unfun war.
2. Timoteos Stefanosigos
3. I'm inserting my comments in bold in the text posted by Stefanosigos in this post:
OOC: In order to avoid multiplying posts about one "defence move", I will write also about the air forces of Paulos Petrosigos. I consulted this with him and he will confirm this below my post.
Malliki Tosha wrote:
5 B-52s can carry a total of 157 tons of bombs. They have been dropped on the national park with an area of roughly 7,800 square kilometers, meaning about 20 kilos per square kilometer.
And the most popular bombs (i.e. Mark 82), weight about 250 kg kilos. So, this will be about 1 bomb per 12 square kilometers... I wouldn't call this "heavy carpet-bombing", but I won't quarell with Ryan's way of expressing.
Malliki Tosha wrote:
Also, I don't know what other people do here, but I only look at the summary so I know what to reply to.
Ok, it's fair that only writed here or send to judges should be counted, but I don't get why the "story" should be less important on binding then summary.
Malliki Tosha wrote:
(Note: According to WP the maximum altitude for the Stinger missile is 3 800 meters.)
And for Alvis Stormer HVM (which is also included in Annunia Convention as default AA unit) maximum range (and altitude) is 7 000 meters. I can agree it's not very consistent, but I think it's a little unfair, that Ryan declared "altitude just over AA range" without declaring what he belives to be that range. I accept that his aircraft can fly over the range, i.e. at 15 thousands meters, but he declared to be 500 ft over fire range which he couldn't know for sure, and which, as Pawel said, is only an approximation. In my story and summary I assumed, that he was just at the end of effective fire range - and some of our missiles were capable to hit him.
The range of the Stinger missile used in the Avenger system and the Starstreak missile used in the Alvis Stormer system is public knowledge. A quick Google or Wikipedia search will tell you the range in a matter of minutes. To claim that Ryan couldn't have known about it because he didn't spell it out is laughable. Especially if you take this extremely public and uncontested post into consideration.
Quote:
- Hoplon One, it's Loco Four. I've got enemy group at the radar. They're heading south, at 23 thousand feets. If they remain on course and current speed they will be over Montauk in about... (counting) 45 minutes. It's about ten to fifteen aircrafts, and I'm sure there are some heavy bombers with them.
- OK, Loco Four. Remain on stealth and follow this group, but don't get too close to them. Report if anything changes. Over. - the officer in the air command remained calm. He called to commander of the Surmenian Forces...
As far as I know, 23 000 feet is not over AA range. Also, I believe that the enemy can't tell us what altitude we're flying on. If it's unclear, they should ask, not just declare this.
5 minutes later, in 1st Surmenian Group HQ...
- More then ten aircrafts? Heading our direction? About 40 minutes? All right, thank you. So, I want all our fighters over island and ready to stop them at the moment, those on patrol duty joins if they have enough fuel for air fight. The same about stealth fighters. Keep me up to date. Thanks. - general Andreosigos hanged up and taken another phone. - Colonel, sound the alarm. We got enemy air group at bay. They will be there in about 40 minutes. What? No, we don't know yet where they are going to drop bombs, but we will see when they will be lowering before the attack. Yes, all AA guns and missile launchers at full alarm. And inform all land commanders and President Abramowicz about the situation.
What fighters over Montauk? There has been no post by the Interlandian side launching air operations over Montauk. If the move was secret, we should still have been informed since the radar carried by the E-2D Hawkeye can see the airspace over the entire island. No planes have been launched by Stefanosigos, and the fighters based on Pawel's carrier and Camel's carrier (which I suppose they are) have not been launched and not been seen by any of the E-2Ds. In this post, I extended Combat Air Patrol over my 2nd Carrier Strike Group with embedded Phalanx forces to cover the island as well, but only over 9 000 meters to stay out of AA range. The range of the Sidewinder missile carried by my fighters (among other missiles) has a maximum range of 14 km, so they can engage fighters on low altitudes as well.
Half an hour later, about 9 km over the west Montauk.
- All right lads, we've will got them on the radars in about 5 minutes. - major Monologosigos informed other pilots of his group. - Remember, we have chance to intercept them by suprise...
Again, these fighters have never been launched, and if they were by secret move, they should have been spotted by my E-2Ds long ago. They should also immediately have been engaged by my fighters flying CAP over Montauk +9 000 meters.
At the same time, at the ground
- Our missiles missed the target, sir! - reported shooter of missile AA system.
- Dear Jsom, what they are doing? - commander of "24 AA Defence Position", which was the official title for his Alvis Stormer Air Defence System, couldn't belive his eyes, while observing on radar and on air the enemy bombers dropping... single bombs with big interval between each drop.
Amendment: Okay, let's say all bombs were Mark 82s, weighing 250 kg each. That means 628 bombs in total. That doesn't sound like "single bombs with big interval between each drop".
- I don't know sir, but it's totally weird. Should we launch another salvo? - asked the shooter.
- No, they're at the end of our range, maybe one or two of our missiles would hit them if we're lucky, but the others would be wasted - just like 90% of their bombs. Besides, in about 5 minutes our fighters will engage them. We should better get some cover. Their bombing tactics may be weird and totally useless - but I dont want to end with fu***n "one-for-million-chance-bomb" on my head. So - stop the fire and go on.
4 minutes and 30 seconds later, about 9 km over the west Montauk
- Their escort fighters are coming. Thirty seconds to contact! Good luck and Jsom bless us all! - Monologosigos with steady voice gave his last orders to his group. It was also his last words at all. 27 seconds later his fighter was hit by enemy missile which wasn't fooled by his aircraft defence system.
Summary - The land forces was prepared to recive the bombing, thanks to stealth fighter scouting the strait, which discover the group long before the attack. Air defence opened fire at the enemy which was at the end of efective range and do only a little damage, then cease to fire before the air forces of Petrosigos 2nd Surmenian Group engaged enemy. During fight we managed to break through escort fighters and to attack the enemy bombers. After about thirthy minute fight, our aircrafts disengage from enemy and returned to base. After that, returning aircrafts of enemy was shooted by air-defence again - in hope, that due to duels and/or damages taken they are forced to lower their altitude.
I fail to understand how fighters (that have never been launched) can avoid being engaged by my fighters flying CAP over Montauk. Apparently they can also not be seen by my E-2Ds (I'm talking about the non-stealth fighters). In saying that he broke through the escort fighters he is god-modding.
Losses
The so-called "carpet" bombing was mostly unsucessfull due to loose dropping of bombs over a big, uninhabited forest region. Defending forces lost 4 soldiers and a truck in explosion of one of them, several roads and civilian buldings were also lightly damaged.
Sounds a bit low, imho. Also, out of 628 bombs, two hit something military? Finally, the national park is apparently a "big, uninhabited forest region" with "several roads and civilian buildings". Just sayin'...
In airfight we lose three of nine present fighters and none of two present stealth fighters. One was hit by missile from distance (missiles was launched by both sides at the beginning of this battle) and two destroyed in close combat duels.
Yeah.
4. See bold text above.
5. I don't know. If I have to use JPs every time the Interlandian side acts, this is going to be a very long and unfun war.
Last edited by Malliki Tosha on Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
- Guido Zambelis
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
Stefanosigos, your response to the points in bold please.
- TimoteosStefanosigos
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
Sorry - you made mistake about this public-knowledge (while assuming that the max altitude for Stinger is 8km), so why Ryan couldn't?The range of the Stinger missile used in the Avenger system and the Starstreak missile used in the Alvis Stormer system is public knowledge. A quick Google or Wikipedia search will tell you the range in a matter of minutes. To claim that Ryan couldn't have known about it because he didn't spell it out is laughable. Especially if you take this extremely public and uncontested post into consideration.
But I only stated that Ryan couldn't know if we use Avenger or Starstreak (with diffrent max. missile altitude) and should tell what he belive to be our range (Stinger 3800 m or Starstreak 7000 m?). In fact, your post is best example, why to do it - You made a mistake about the max range of Stinger, but still, you declared your real altitude. Other thing is, that he put his aircrafts 500 fts over this range range - and the range is an approximation, not a single line after which missiles explodes, or fall.
Is this impossible that he could belived, that we're operating only Stingers, so he flown 500 ft over 3800 m altitude? But I doesn't made such advantageous for us assumption, I assumed that he choosed the higher level (7 km of Starstreak it's about 23k ft, 23 465,8793 if you want strict numbers), on his advantage. So - I think there's nothing to quarell about.
Sorry - I can't tell about your's Hawkeye's and other radars, but everything was public. Look at the first post of Petrosigos (sorry, I don't know how to direct link to the post), and look at the Pawel Abrams post next to it. There are informations about stealth planes over the Montauk strait, about the air patrols over the island and about the flights of Pawel Abrams fighters close to Montauk (but they weren't used in this battle). Maybe your radars are missing something, or you have lazy operators?What fighters over Montauk? There has been no post by the Interlandian side launching air operations over Montauk. If the move was secret, we should still have been informed since the radar carried by the E-2D Hawkeye can see the airspace over the entire island. No planes have been launched by Stefanosigos, and the fighters based on Pawel's carrier and Camel's carrier (which I suppose they are) have not been launched and not been seen by any of the E-2Ds. In this post, I extended Combat Air Patrol over my 2nd Carrier Strike Group with embedded Phalanx forces to cover the island as well, but only over 9 000 meters to stay out of AA range. The range of the Sidewinder missile carried by my fighters (among other missiles) has a maximum range of 14 km, so they can engage fighters on low altitudes as well.
Again, all was public, before your move. If you missed them - it's not our fault. You didn't call the attack, we neither - so, i think our aircrafts just pass without action, which is weird - but not impossible.Again, these fighters have never been launched, and if they were by secret move, they should have been spotted by my E-2Ds long ago. They should also immediately have been engaged by my fighters flying CAP over Montauk +9 000 meters.
Yep, it sounds... because Ryan declared bombing of whole National Park. As you yourself stated that's about 7,800 square kilometers, to cover whole he could only drop one bomb on 12/13 square km. Sorry - it's his fault, that he didn't look for number of bombs his B-52 could take and ordered something impossible.Amendment: Okay, let's say all bombs were Mark 82s, weighing 250 kg each. That means 628 bombs in total. That doesn't sound like "single bombs with big interval between each drop".
628 bombs, dropped very loosely from over 7km altitude, over mostly uninhabited region of 7,8000 square km without any specific aims nor any aiming at all (as Ryan clearly declared)... and our military isn't very large in this region. I think it's a little miracle that he actually does hit something military.Sounds a bit low, imho. Also, out of 628 bombs, two hit something military? Finally, the national park is apparently a "big, uninhabited forest region" with "several roads and civilian buildings". Just sayin'...
Maybe if you would actually read our posts, you won't have to bother us and judges with JP's?I don't know. If I have to use JPs every time the Interlandian side acts, this is going to be a very long and unfun war.
(-) mjr Timoteos Stefanosigos
Archon of Surmenian Kingdom
acting Thesmotet of Defence
Archon of Surmenian Kingdom
acting Thesmotet of Defence
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
Provisional judgement, I would welcome the opinions of other judges:
Ryan declared that he was flying at 30,000 in a secret move made in conjunction with the post before the public attack post.
I therefore invite the Interlandian side to edit this post (http://micras.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58136#p58136) to reflect a less successful attack by their fighters and include any counter-attack that may have been made by the helicopters that were stated in the secret move mentioned above.
(Btw, you can get the individual URLs of each post by clicking this tiny icon just under the title: http://micras.org/forum/styles/xabbblue ... target.gif)
Ryan declared that he was flying at 30,000 in a secret move made in conjunction with the post before the public attack post.
(He also stated the following:)The Wing will fly at an altitude of 30,000 feet in order to remain above the 26,500 ft ceiling of the AA defenses on Montauk. Each bomber can carry 157 tons of bombs per run and, at that rate, can drop 20 kilos per square kilometer.
Fighters were deployed on the 27th (http://micras.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58040#p58040) and were mentioned again on the 28th (http://micras.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58051#p58051). However, the fact that the Antican side was seemingly unaware of this doesn't mean that their RADAR didn't detect them - that would be simply illogical. It was foolish of the Interlandian side to pretend that the fighters were somehow undetected when the capabilities of the Antican RADAR systems have been publicly stated. Also, only 4 fighters are stealth, the rest are not.The ten (10) attack helicopters of the 1st Air Attack Wing, along with all elements of the 2nd Air Attack Wing, will remain on active standby to intercept any fighters that may be launched in an effort to intercept our bombers.
I therefore invite the Interlandian side to edit this post (http://micras.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58136#p58136) to reflect a less successful attack by their fighters and include any counter-attack that may have been made by the helicopters that were stated in the secret move mentioned above.
(Btw, you can get the individual URLs of each post by clicking this tiny icon just under the title: http://micras.org/forum/styles/xabbblue ... target.gif)
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
The fighters launched by Interland in that first post should have been included in the summary, not just mentioned in passing. And what about my fighters patrolling over 9,000 meters? They can engage any aircraft over Montauk. They were not mentioned in the Interlandian post, nor by you here. The Interlandians also didn't protest when I launched them, nor did they attack them. It would be silly to object now.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
The opinion of this judge is that you guys are potentially the worst recwarrers this charter has ever seen and you may finally kill Anunia for good. For fuck's sake people - we're only 3 pages in and we have two pretty belligerent judicial protests? See, this is why fighting recwars for gain is awful - the convention wasn't meant to hold up to a throughout and merciless scrutiny. Can you at least try to remember what the rec in recwar stands for and work things out?
Basically, there's no way in hell I'm looking up the specifications of aircraft and weapons and stuff to see if something outranged something else. People trying to be clever by saying they're out of range of defenses has always struck me as pretty pathetic attempts at godmodding. In Micras, where there are lots of military superpowers instead of only a small handful on Earth, i'd assume most military technology is keeping up with itself so that no one attack is ultimately super-effective. Try to fly higher than defenses and you'll get lucky once before they'll build better defenses.
Okay, trying to be objective from here on down...
Ryan was bombing low ("The bomber bucked fiercely as flak cannons exploded five-hundred feet below it.") so he's DEFINITELY not out of range of the things he's dropping bombs on. How he expected to bomb antiaircraft guns from 500 feet and not get attacked is beyond me. Do something about this.
Anyone with aircraft anywhere in the vicinity can probably try to intercept anyone with aircraft also in the vicinity. Launching takes mere minutes if they're on the tarmacs - bombing runs are a slow process. Since Ryan's bombers were unescorted apparently, it makes sense that Montauk fighters would attempt to engage them, even more so since they claimed they were ready for the possibility and both sides have extensive radar blanketing of mostly everything. But it also makes sense that any fighters that were flying around on the Antican side would be able to react to the launch. Malliki's claim that his fighters were patrolling the entire island and would be able to react instantly to any launch anywhere is pretty far fetched - it's possible, but he can't claim to have the entire island covered around the clock. Fighters need fuel and stuff, yo, and flying takes a toll on pilots. So the only question that remains is: were Malliki's fighters in the right places at the right times and able to incercept the Montaukan ones before the Montaukan fighters assault Ryan's attacking bombers?
There's no real impartial way for me to make this call, so I flipped a coin to decide. Yep. Heads favors Montauk, tails Antica. Coin came up tails.
Judicial ruling: Ryan should have been exposed to antiaircraft fire of some sort from his low bombing run. Malliki's fighters were within range to intercept the Montaukan interceptors launching in reaction to Ryan's bombers. AIR BATTLE GO
Basically, there's no way in hell I'm looking up the specifications of aircraft and weapons and stuff to see if something outranged something else. People trying to be clever by saying they're out of range of defenses has always struck me as pretty pathetic attempts at godmodding. In Micras, where there are lots of military superpowers instead of only a small handful on Earth, i'd assume most military technology is keeping up with itself so that no one attack is ultimately super-effective. Try to fly higher than defenses and you'll get lucky once before they'll build better defenses.
Okay, trying to be objective from here on down...
Ryan was bombing low ("The bomber bucked fiercely as flak cannons exploded five-hundred feet below it.") so he's DEFINITELY not out of range of the things he's dropping bombs on. How he expected to bomb antiaircraft guns from 500 feet and not get attacked is beyond me. Do something about this.
Anyone with aircraft anywhere in the vicinity can probably try to intercept anyone with aircraft also in the vicinity. Launching takes mere minutes if they're on the tarmacs - bombing runs are a slow process. Since Ryan's bombers were unescorted apparently, it makes sense that Montauk fighters would attempt to engage them, even more so since they claimed they were ready for the possibility and both sides have extensive radar blanketing of mostly everything. But it also makes sense that any fighters that were flying around on the Antican side would be able to react to the launch. Malliki's claim that his fighters were patrolling the entire island and would be able to react instantly to any launch anywhere is pretty far fetched - it's possible, but he can't claim to have the entire island covered around the clock. Fighters need fuel and stuff, yo, and flying takes a toll on pilots. So the only question that remains is: were Malliki's fighters in the right places at the right times and able to incercept the Montaukan ones before the Montaukan fighters assault Ryan's attacking bombers?
There's no real impartial way for me to make this call, so I flipped a coin to decide. Yep. Heads favors Montauk, tails Antica. Coin came up tails.
Judicial ruling: Ryan should have been exposed to antiaircraft fire of some sort from his low bombing run. Malliki's fighters were within range to intercept the Montaukan interceptors launching in reaction to Ryan's bombers. AIR BATTLE GO
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
Real objective. I would like to hear from the other judges.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
Take it or leave it. Your claims of having fighters indefinitely patrolling the skies is wacky amounts of unrealistic to begin with. That's not and never has been how fighters do operations.
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
I've never said that. Fighters take turns patrolling airspace, landing, refueling and reloading, then taking off again. The fact that you complain more than any of the players makes me seriously regret approving of you as a judge. Either you at least try to act in a somewhat objective and professional manner, or you can quit.
I still would appreciate input from another judge.
I still would appreciate input from another judge.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
How is it unrealistic for fighters to fly CAP in rotation?
Коля лает «гав-гав».
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
Second opinion?
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
What makes you think you're getting one? What is this, musical judges, where if you don't like a judge's ruling you can call for another one? I already decided in favor of you anyway so I'm not even sure what you're complaining about.
The main advantage of aircraft is their speed over every other type of military unit. They can take off and soar at huge speeds across long distances in time to counter any threat. That's why the Annunia Convention has aircraft movement be essentially instantaneous anywhere within their operating range. It makes these sorts of "patrols" unnecessary - all a player has to do is simply indicate, publically or via private message, that their aircraft are on alert for intercepting enemy aircraft and the action will activate whenever the conditions are met.
Depends on what you mean. If you mean the pilots, not that unrealistic I guess, but the aircraft themselves would need a certain amount of downtime for refueling and preventative work. If you mean the planes were patrolling in shifts, that's also possible, but I don't think it was specified, was it?chrimigules wrote:How is it unrealistic for fighters to fly CAP in rotation?
The main advantage of aircraft is their speed over every other type of military unit. They can take off and soar at huge speeds across long distances in time to counter any threat. That's why the Annunia Convention has aircraft movement be essentially instantaneous anywhere within their operating range. It makes these sorts of "patrols" unnecessary - all a player has to do is simply indicate, publically or via private message, that their aircraft are on alert for intercepting enemy aircraft and the action will activate whenever the conditions are met.
- Lord_Montague
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
I won't give a dissenting opinion if I'm honest.
CAPs do serve their purpose in allowing for a plane to be up and ready with a slight tactical advantage. We're not totally points based on this and I do appreciate seeing tactical finesse.
However in this case, it seems reasonable after reviewing the posts that Malliki only had 2 CAPs and its standard procedure across air forces to fly CAPs in pairs so as far I know.
And to be fair, having those B52s of Ryan's escape completely undamaged is not fair. Some damage, it doesn't have to be a loss of one but perhaps damaged engines, would be fair.
CAPs do serve their purpose in allowing for a plane to be up and ready with a slight tactical advantage. We're not totally points based on this and I do appreciate seeing tactical finesse.
However in this case, it seems reasonable after reviewing the posts that Malliki only had 2 CAPs and its standard procedure across air forces to fly CAPs in pairs so as far I know.
And to be fair, having those B52s of Ryan's escape completely undamaged is not fair. Some damage, it doesn't have to be a loss of one but perhaps damaged engines, would be fair.
In Battle; Unbeatable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
In Victory; Unbearable.
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- FMS Staff
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- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:02 am
Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
Okay, thank you. Harvey's attitude is just starting to get to me, that's all. He complains more than any of the players in this war.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
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- FMS Staff
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Re: [JP] Malliki Tosha vs. TimoteosStefanosigos; Montauk air
I just noticed this. What do you mean by "low" bombing run? Since when is 30,000 feet low? I'm sorry if Ryan didn't PM that info to you as well, but just check a couple of posts above this and you can see that Guido said the same.SaiKar wrote:Judicial ruling: Ryan should have been exposed to antiaircraft fire of some sort from his low bombing run. Malliki's fighters were within range to intercept the Montaukan interceptors launching in reaction to Ryan's bombers. AIR BATTLE GO
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]
Owner, Newport City FC [ANT]
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC [IRS]