Let's talk inflation.
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
What wil happen with Andreas' stock exchange? I put a lot of money in it, but that amount will probably not be increased as long as it's part of the SCX...
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- Mateo Mattiassen
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
As the administrator of the Flemish bank, I can only speak for the Flemish situation: most of our private citizens have between 400 and 30.000 'currency units'. By multiplying by 1,000,000, this will lead to private capitals in the hunderds of millions (and billions), if I understand the plans correctly. I don't feel these are more realistic amounts.
Mateo Diez Mattiassen
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
Those amounts are very realistic if one takes into account that a citizen of a micronation is in wealth, social status, power and influence comparable to the (business) elite of the larger macronations and in those circles fortunes of that size are not unheard of.Mateo Mattiassen wrote:As the administrator of the Flemish bank, I can only speak for the Flemish situation: most of our private citizens have between 400 and 30.000 'currency units'. By multiplying by 1,000,000, this will lead to private capitals in the hunderds of millions (and billions), if I understand the plans correctly. I don't feel these are more realistic amounts.
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
That does still mean you're proposing to pay us each 1 erb each for our combined services over the last few years. I suspect that number may be out (and if it is only meant to be 1 erb, I think it unnecessary to put in the resolution).
Andreas
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- Mateo Mattiassen
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
These amendments would have a huge impact on our economy. I urge the organization to not push through these plans and to take time to consult, at length, all governments involved. I ask that all governments involved are granted at least two weeks time to research the impact of these plans.
I think a lot of people have adapted to the current situation. It's not because one person throws away 2.000 coins as if it's nothing, that we should resort to radical changes (almost) overnight. That person will most likely as easily throw away 2 billion coins.
I think a lot of people have adapted to the current situation. It's not because one person throws away 2.000 coins as if it's nothing, that we should resort to radical changes (almost) overnight. That person will most likely as easily throw away 2 billion coins.
Mateo Diez Mattiassen
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
I don't really see how any added zeroes to the funds would actually change something.
I do object.
If we are concerned about inflation, we should look at the distribution of the funds available. Who sits on money? Gralus, the moribund country, has most assets.
I would prefer a redistribution of money. Of course, that would be controversial. But to stimulate economy, the money must go where transactions are wanted.
A SCUE-wide "tax" could solve this, or a threat of tax, which would allow for a movement of accounts to countries.
After this, SCUE states could be obliged to have some sort of taxation within regular intervals.
If we want to stimulate the economy, extra zeroes will not do anything at all. Radical reform is needed.
I do object.
If we are concerned about inflation, we should look at the distribution of the funds available. Who sits on money? Gralus, the moribund country, has most assets.
I would prefer a redistribution of money. Of course, that would be controversial. But to stimulate economy, the money must go where transactions are wanted.
A SCUE-wide "tax" could solve this, or a threat of tax, which would allow for a movement of accounts to countries.
After this, SCUE states could be obliged to have some sort of taxation within regular intervals.
If we want to stimulate the economy, extra zeroes will not do anything at all. Radical reform is needed.
Elijah Ayreon the Dead
(Ric)
(Ric)
Re: Let's talk inflation.
I think that it will not change anything. I think it would be beter to give countries a few units, say 1000 SCUE, plus 100 SCUE/citizen. That gives a more fair result.
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Luc Van Den Braende
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Also know as Arne Govaerts
Luc Van Den Braende
Balliff of Zeeburg
Also know as Arne Govaerts
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
People keep saying that it won't change anything, than what is the objection? But you are right, it won't really change anything. It's just a change in scale. I personally might accept a distribution of like 1-10billion to each nation. But I honestly want to see larger numbers. The bank can handle it. and if we are trying to simulate nations, than the pittance we have in the system is not doing that.
Andreas is right, in a real world context than a micronationalist represents a mover and shaker in society and politics. Why than do we have so little?
As for the SCX talk to Andreas. I don't touch that thing, but I'm sure he could fix it up to work.
I'm going to make some changes to fix what Andreas was pointing out to me.
Andreas is right, in a real world context than a micronationalist represents a mover and shaker in society and politics. Why than do we have so little?
As for the SCX talk to Andreas. I don't touch that thing, but I'm sure he could fix it up to work.
I'm going to make some changes to fix what Andreas was pointing out to me.
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...
Re: Let's talk inflation.
I think it would be beneficial as well to draft a document published by the SCUE regularly as a survey of the market prices for certain important commodities or services on Micran markets. It wouldn't be anything binding, but it could certainly help participants price things accordingly and in a more realistic way
Other than that, this is a great idea, and it has my support.
Other than that, this is a great idea, and it has my support.
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
I like that idea, but we also NEED commodities and such. Right now I'm not really sure what people are buying.
In fact... looking at the log... most transactions are just things like post payout and such. Some stock... a few taxes.
Hmm.. the more I look the more I see stuff moving between government accounts and into and out of them. Not much between people.
In fact... looking at the log... most transactions are just things like post payout and such. Some stock... a few taxes.
Hmm.. the more I look the more I see stuff moving between government accounts and into and out of them. Not much between people.
Erik Metzler
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And Often the Kaiser...
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
I think it's definitely reasonable to allow a reasonable amount of time for people to properly discuss this before putting it to a vote; as long as that process doesn't draw it out so long that the proposal loses all momentum.Mateo Mattiassen wrote:These amendments would have a huge impact on our economy. I urge the organization to not push through these plans and to take time to consult, at length, all governments involved. I ask that all governments involved are granted at least two weeks time to research the impact of these plans.
I think a lot of people have adapted to the current situation. It's not because one person throws away 2.000 coins as if it's nothing, that we should resort to radical changes (almost) overnight. That person will most likely as easily throw away 2 billion coins.
Jonas - sorry, I missed your comment. If all bank accounts are multiplied by the same amount, then the amount of real SCUE funds in the SCX account are the same proportionally. I'd just need to figure out whether I multiply things up for the rates in and out or not. I think the prices inside look reasonable.Jonas Windsor wrote:What wil happen with Andreas' stock exchange? I put a lot of money in it, but that amount will probably not be increased as long as it's part of the SCX...
There are two things at work here. One is Erik's thought that if we have a larger number of zeroes on the end, people's perceptions of their wealth will be larger and so people will be happier to spend a smaller proportion of their wealth. It's a psychological thing. It may or may not actually work, but since the SCUE has grown far beyond the original context where I was active in just about every member country to explain what are appropriate prices were, having a 'base amount' which is more directly comparable to the real world is certainly helpful for new members and citizens.Elijah Ayreon wrote:I don't really see how any added zeroes to the funds would actually change something.
I do object.
If we are concerned about inflation, we should look at the distribution of the funds available. Who sits on money? Gralus, the moribund country, has most assets.
I would prefer a redistribution of money. Of course, that would be controversial. But to stimulate economy, the money must go where transactions are wanted.
A SCUE-wide "tax" could solve this, or a threat of tax, which would allow for a movement of accounts to countries.
After this, SCUE states could be obliged to have some sort of taxation within regular intervals.
If we want to stimulate the economy, extra zeroes will not do anything at all. Radical reform is needed.
The other thing is that very few people have much interest in doing economic things like actually running a business. Shireroth, while the bounty system was active, was probably the country that most used it. The Dutch sector have done a bit. Individuals here and there have done things. But for the most part, guess what happens when a new nation joins the SCUE? They get their funds (if they can actually be bothered to even register a government account, which some nations never did), and some do distribute some funds to their citizens. Then, normally, I see nothing else. I've suggested ideas for getting started but it doesn't help. Most nations, I suspect, join the SCUE because it's the 'I'm an active micronation' thing but aren't really interested in an economy. Giving people extra money doesn't meant they actually use it.
As for Gralus - if I could be bothered to go through the transaction log, I'd suspect Gralus as a nation has the most transactions (or if not the most, then second most behind Shireroth), because we instituted the post economy. That's been the vast majority of the transactions for the last year. We've tried to use our money for other things but consistently nobody is interested, or if they are interested, they say yes and then never do anything.
tl;dr - Gralus holding funds is not the problem
But I'll put my money where my mouth is, and say that I'm very happy to provide 5000-10000 SCUE to individuals/governments from Gralan/my own funds, if they can demonstrate that they've actually used the amount they ask for in the last two months and have further uses for this current amount (or for individuals, just that they actually have specific uses for the full amount they've asked for beyond just lining their own/cronies' pockets). I don't think such an offer will help, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
This is actually a great idea and probably the most useful suggestion thus far. Anybody actually interested in doing it? I no longer have the time/motivation to do such a thing, but I agree it would be very useful.Emperor Edgard II wrote:I think it would be beneficial as well to draft a document published by the SCUE regularly as a survey of the market prices for certain important commodities or services on Micran markets. It wouldn't be anything binding, but it could certainly help participants price things accordingly and in a more realistic way
Other than that, this is a great idea, and it has my support.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
Re: Let's talk inflation.
The reason why we don't spend money is because we don't have anything to spend it on. An economy is useless without supply and demand. This will do nothing to solve that problem.
- Lord_Montague
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
A points list you say......
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
Personally this is the problem I have always worried about with SCUE, and most other attempts at micronational economics. In the real world, economies arguably exist because of scarcity. They are a system of allocating resources in a supposedly-optimal way when there are not enough of said resources for everyone to simply take freely.The reason why we don't spend money is because we don't have anything to spend it on. An economy is useless without supply and demand. This will do nothing to solve that problem.
On Micras, however, there is no genuine scarcity. Just about everything people want (offices, titles, land, etc.) can be created infinitely, and there is usually a lot left over. To have a realistically-functioning economy we would need to create artificial scarcity, a tricky thing to do, which may not be stable even if done.
There are some things which are actually scarce, expertise at designing websites, heraldry, and so on. But I think many people who have those skills are like me in that they wouldn't want to simply sell them. One's "artistic freedom" is compromised, and it becomes work; most of us get enough of that in our day jobs. Plus, micronational currencies have a long record of suddenly losing their value, so one is reluctant to accept payment for real work in them anyway.
Jan V. Loresen
Kingdom of Craitland
Kingdom of Craitland
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
Mike, I never said this would fix that. There are a lot of things that need fixing, that is just one of them.
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...