Let's talk inflation.
Re: Let's talk inflation.
One would think that fixing the basic problem with our economy would take priority over unrequested and needless inflation.
Re: Let's talk inflation.
See Shireroth's Kaiser Hasan I who implemented the idea of having legislative votes tied to wealth, so the artificial situation could be easily created where wealth was worth something. Flawed as it was, it did produce this 'scarcity' effect. The only thing was that if an issue of actual importance came up, such that it would be interesting/important for X to vote on it, that probably means it involves your personal interests. In that situation, if the vote doesn't go your way, you're not forced to stay in the community. If, for example, the Landsraad of Shireroth decides to break apart your Duchy, that might not cause you to ragequit immediately, but it might dishearten you. Several recent political situations in Shireroth have revolved around one person forcing someone else to do something against their will - never ends well.Jan Loresen wrote:On Micras, however, there is no genuine scarcity. Just about everything people want (offices, titles, land, etc.) can be created infinitely, and there is usually a lot left over. To have a realistically-functioning economy we would need to create artificial scarcity, a tricky thing to do, which may not be stable even if done.
Formerly His Imperial Niftiness Yardistanislaus du Grifos, former Kaiser of Shireroth
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
Now just Vilhelm Benkern, Count of Mar Sara
Suzerain of Hawshire // Peil̊åkti an Ixraǔtn | Protector of the Safir // Xonuti Shawa 'allumi Sanilla'i'i | King of the Free State of Sanilla
- Mateo Mattiassen
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
The government of the Republic of Flanders would like to present the following study, which examines the effects of the proposed super inflation (with a factor of 1.000.000), on the Flemish economy in particular, while also raising concerns which are applicable to other SCUE member nations:
The Zimbabwification of the Flemish Economy: The effects of the Mortis-Proposal of super inflation (pdf)
We call on the other members nations to reject the proposal in its current form. If we understand the Treaty correctly, at least 15 of the 22 current members nations have to approve this proposal, as it requires a supermajority per Article 7.
The Republic of Flanders remains willing to consider other proposals which would alleviate the concerns raised by Erik Mortis, including but not limited to a more modest inflation (factor of 10 or 100).
The Zimbabwification of the Flemish Economy: The effects of the Mortis-Proposal of super inflation (pdf)
We call on the other members nations to reject the proposal in its current form. If we understand the Treaty correctly, at least 15 of the 22 current members nations have to approve this proposal, as it requires a supermajority per Article 7.
The Republic of Flanders remains willing to consider other proposals which would alleviate the concerns raised by Erik Mortis, including but not limited to a more modest inflation (factor of 10 or 100).
Mateo Diez Mattiassen
President of the Federal Republic of Flanders
Leader of the National Parties Federation
President of the Federal Republic of Flanders
Leader of the National Parties Federation
- Giles Melang
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
As Erik's Trade Minister, I would like to provide some further support to
his idea. For a moment, imagine...
- ...how more realistic it would be, in Rec-War, to exchange millions and billions
of Erb over the SCUE bank as opposed to just thousands.
- ...how much more fun it would be to become Micras' first Billionaire as opposed
to just a "Thousandair"
- ...how you'll be wealthier after the change, not poorer. Technically speaking,
although Erik used the word "inflation", "inflation" is, at least in economics
terminology, not what is going on. While the numbers of the currency are changing, the
purchasing power is not. EXAMPLE: If you own 1000 Erb today and it, for instance, became 1000000 Erb
tomorrow, you would still be able to afford the same.*
*In fact, you might even become richer.... (Warning, about to get technical here.)
In inflation, your money typically decreases in purchasing power. No one's money would be
decreasing in purchasing power under Erik's plan. Moreover, when those holding certain amounts
now become millionaires, those in libertarian/laissez-faire micro-nations will keep
these gains and those just starting out in those economies will likely start out lower,
meaning unless some kind of income redistribution takes place between current economic
players and new entrants into the economy, those of us currently in the economy will
probably stand to get very rich. (Because of this I will increase/implement in Shireroth
an increase for the ever important new citizen bounty from 50 Erb to something higher
--maybe 50,000 Erb-- to provide new citizens/economic participants a more equal footing
with those of us already in the economy who stand to gain vastly from this new change
Erik plans to implement.)
his idea. For a moment, imagine...
- ...how more realistic it would be, in Rec-War, to exchange millions and billions
of Erb over the SCUE bank as opposed to just thousands.
- ...how much more fun it would be to become Micras' first Billionaire as opposed
to just a "Thousandair"
- ...how you'll be wealthier after the change, not poorer. Technically speaking,
although Erik used the word "inflation", "inflation" is, at least in economics
terminology, not what is going on. While the numbers of the currency are changing, the
purchasing power is not. EXAMPLE: If you own 1000 Erb today and it, for instance, became 1000000 Erb
tomorrow, you would still be able to afford the same.*
*In fact, you might even become richer.... (Warning, about to get technical here.)
In inflation, your money typically decreases in purchasing power. No one's money would be
decreasing in purchasing power under Erik's plan. Moreover, when those holding certain amounts
now become millionaires, those in libertarian/laissez-faire micro-nations will keep
these gains and those just starting out in those economies will likely start out lower,
meaning unless some kind of income redistribution takes place between current economic
players and new entrants into the economy, those of us currently in the economy will
probably stand to get very rich. (Because of this I will increase/implement in Shireroth
an increase for the ever important new citizen bounty from 50 Erb to something higher
--maybe 50,000 Erb-- to provide new citizens/economic participants a more equal footing
with those of us already in the economy who stand to gain vastly from this new change
Erik plans to implement.)
Giles Melang
Minister of Trade, Shireroth
Count of the Raynor Isles, Shireroth
Owner, Benacia Casino Company
Play ShireWin and Kildare Lotto on SC Bank and win today!
http://www.shireroth.org/bank/index.php
Minister of Trade, Shireroth
Count of the Raynor Isles, Shireroth
Owner, Benacia Casino Company
Play ShireWin and Kildare Lotto on SC Bank and win today!
http://www.shireroth.org/bank/index.php
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
Okey. I still support mega-multiplying the economy.
but as a compromise.
Only multiply by say 100. And create 500 million for the SCUE to use for various things such as paying Andreas and I, giving economic awards and other contract works. This'll increase the total money in the world right now. And it'll create a mechanism for increasing total funds in the long term.
but as a compromise.
Only multiply by say 100. And create 500 million for the SCUE to use for various things such as paying Andreas and I, giving economic awards and other contract works. This'll increase the total money in the world right now. And it'll create a mechanism for increasing total funds in the long term.
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
I think 100 or 1000 is a good amount (I'd certainly prefer something like that to multiplying by 1 000 000).
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
Well, which is it. 100 or 1000?
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...
Re: Let's talk inflation.
I still say no. Gilles is wrong, since the proposal also includes printing new money which leads to inflation. A simple multiplication of the current funds by 100 or 1000 could perhaps be done, but no new money.
- Mateo Mattiassen
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
100 at most.
Rather then printing new money for the SCUE, I'd like to propose that all members nations have to pay a yearly contribution to the bank, with which all the people who work for the bank (in the first place, the programmers/administrators) are remunerated. This is a good way to (continuously) 'pay' respect to those who put a lot of work in the bank, rather then creating money one-off, out of nothing for this purpose.
Rather then printing new money for the SCUE, I'd like to propose that all members nations have to pay a yearly contribution to the bank, with which all the people who work for the bank (in the first place, the programmers/administrators) are remunerated. This is a good way to (continuously) 'pay' respect to those who put a lot of work in the bank, rather then creating money one-off, out of nothing for this purpose.
Mateo Diez Mattiassen
President of the Federal Republic of Flanders
Leader of the National Parties Federation
President of the Federal Republic of Flanders
Leader of the National Parties Federation
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
I see the money creation as part of the compromise. If I can't get my giant jump, than I'll have a small jump now, and a slow trickle over the next 2-3 years. It's not a large amount of money really, not compared to what I want, and it'll portion out slowly.
I do still like the idea of dues, as you mention, to keep the SCUE stocked, and as a means to keep inflation in hand if it does become a problem.
I do still like the idea of dues, as you mention, to keep the SCUE stocked, and as a means to keep inflation in hand if it does become a problem.
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
Double Post!
x100 would bring total funds to 110 million. the 500million would be use for a slower increase that won't break the economies of your nations, as you are concerned. Total it comes to 600million. so a x600 increase. Compared to x1,000,000 that's a drop in the bucket. and the majority of that is slow increase.
x100 would bring total funds to 110 million. the 500million would be use for a slower increase that won't break the economies of your nations, as you are concerned. Total it comes to 600million. so a x600 increase. Compared to x1,000,000 that's a drop in the bucket. and the majority of that is slow increase.
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...
- Mateo Mattiassen
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
With those provisions, I can and will support that.
Mateo Diez Mattiassen
President of the Federal Republic of Flanders
Leader of the National Parties Federation
President of the Federal Republic of Flanders
Leader of the National Parties Federation
Re: Let's talk inflation.
I will support it if we also discuss and come to some sort of agreement regarding the more pressing issue of lack of supply and demand.
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
Wait, why does the SCUE need 500 million (which at a x100 increase, is still 5 million in today's SCUE money). If the SCUE just needs money for paying you and me for programming/admin stuff, given you've already been paid a lot from Shireroth for bank stuff over the years, I can't imagine the SCUE needing more than 10 000 in today's money. 20 000 tops.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
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Re: Let's talk inflation.
The money for the SCUE is for long term increase. The SCUE won't need to collect dues, but it can use the money to pay out awards and salaries and stuff, and thus slowly increase the total in circulation. It's not really what I wanted, but I'm not sure what I wanted was a good idea anymore.
And Mike, I started that other thread just for that reason. I'm not sure I want to wait for that thread to bare fruit before moving this forward though. But if you want to make that happen, let's talk supply and demand there.
And Mike, I started that other thread just for that reason. I'm not sure I want to wait for that thread to bare fruit before moving this forward though. But if you want to make that happen, let's talk supply and demand there.
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...