Sangun and Riskai Claim
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Sangun and Riskai Claim
Name & Title: Sadamara Aptrgangr of Hesthjem, King of Sangun and Riskai
E-Mail/Contact: sadamara@rocketmail.com
Nation: Kingdom of Sangun and Riskai
No. of Citizens: 2 (but effectively, just me)
MN URL: http://vikings.invisionzone.com/index.php?showforum=235
Flag Image:
Claim:
Notes: I apologise in advance for the sheer complexity of this claim!
Under the terms of the Sangun and Riskai-Stormark Treaty of Free Association, the Kingdom of Sangun and Riskai is a sovereign state in association with the High Realm; however, not only does the Kingdom retain full control over its own affairs (including the right to diplomatic representation in its own right), but Stormark has also expressly recognised the Kingdom's sovereignty over its national territory. In case it is relevant, I should add that although the current united kingdom is a relatively recent phenomenon, Sangun was established in 2005 and has been fully sovereign since 2009 whilst Riskai was established in 2008 and has been fully sovereign since 2010.
Therefore, after consultation with His Imperial Majesty King Harald, I wish to formally request that the Kingdom be represented as a distinct nation, albeit in association with Stormark. In view of the geographically dispersed nature of the state and because I am uncertain of MCS policy in such cases, in the claim map above I have depicted the territories in question in their own national colour (in this instance, dark green) but diagonally striped with Stormark's colour as I believe is customary for associated states.
I would also like to request a couple of minor additions to the territory of the Kingdom, namely the four tiny islands near Sangun as well as the area around and including the ruins of Olmstead. This modest 'expansion' is intended to allow the representation of the traditional Sangunese regions of Mongun and Shingun (indicated by their respective administrative centres, Mombu and Shimbu), as stipulated in the Edict of Konodai, but which have remained dormant since the collapse of the GSO.
I thank the MCS in advance for their consideration, and will of course remain available should there be any further questions.
E-Mail/Contact: sadamara@rocketmail.com
Nation: Kingdom of Sangun and Riskai
No. of Citizens: 2 (but effectively, just me)
MN URL: http://vikings.invisionzone.com/index.php?showforum=235
Flag Image:
Claim:
Notes: I apologise in advance for the sheer complexity of this claim!
Under the terms of the Sangun and Riskai-Stormark Treaty of Free Association, the Kingdom of Sangun and Riskai is a sovereign state in association with the High Realm; however, not only does the Kingdom retain full control over its own affairs (including the right to diplomatic representation in its own right), but Stormark has also expressly recognised the Kingdom's sovereignty over its national territory. In case it is relevant, I should add that although the current united kingdom is a relatively recent phenomenon, Sangun was established in 2005 and has been fully sovereign since 2009 whilst Riskai was established in 2008 and has been fully sovereign since 2010.
Therefore, after consultation with His Imperial Majesty King Harald, I wish to formally request that the Kingdom be represented as a distinct nation, albeit in association with Stormark. In view of the geographically dispersed nature of the state and because I am uncertain of MCS policy in such cases, in the claim map above I have depicted the territories in question in their own national colour (in this instance, dark green) but diagonally striped with Stormark's colour as I believe is customary for associated states.
I would also like to request a couple of minor additions to the territory of the Kingdom, namely the four tiny islands near Sangun as well as the area around and including the ruins of Olmstead. This modest 'expansion' is intended to allow the representation of the traditional Sangunese regions of Mongun and Shingun (indicated by their respective administrative centres, Mombu and Shimbu), as stipulated in the Edict of Konodai, but which have remained dormant since the collapse of the GSO.
I thank the MCS in advance for their consideration, and will of course remain available should there be any further questions.
Rossheim, who acts as various members of the eponymous family including but not limited to:
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles
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Re: Sangun and Riskai Claim
Thank you very much for drawing your claim as expertly as you have done - I really wouldn't've known where to start with all that!
Re: Sangun and Riskai Claim
It is a complex claim, I'm afraid...so the very least I can do is supply a map!
Whilst on the subject of complexity, I notice there is some confusion concerning my claim and what it represents, for which I do apologise. In an effort to clarify matters, I'd like to address the following points:
Is Sangun and Riskai an independent state or a dependency of Stormark?
It is an independent, sovereign state that has entered into a free association with Stormark. The relationship is broadly analogous to that of the USA and the Federated States of Micronesia (which is a UN member state), with the exception that Stormark is not wholly responsible for Sangun and Riskai's defence- it is merely required to support it.
If Sangun and Riskai is an independent state, why are you asking for it to be striped with Stormark's colour as well as receiving its own?
It seems a shame for the MCS to have all these symbols it rarely uses, so I'm keen to use the diagonal striping to represent the ongoing relationship with Stormark. However, owing to the small and geographically dispersed nature of Sangun and Riskai's territory, I also feel it makes more sense for it to have its own designated colour rather than cluttering up the map with the various labels that would otherwise be necessary. In other words, assigning it a unique colour removes the need to write 'Sangun and Riskai' in at least two places.
Don't you have your own forum?
Yes, I do! However, it hasn't seen much use since 2007 and I'm currently in the process of converting it into an archive, in case of future problems with Stormark's fora.
But if you have your own forum, why use Stormark's?
1. Few things are less appealing than a big, empty forum with one or two people rattling around trying desperately to make the place look alive. Being hosted by Stormark, by contrast, ensures a reasonable flow of visitors and enables me to benefit from their feedback.
2. Due to RL constraints, I sometimes have to take a LOA. For what is effectively a one-person nation, this would be disastrous- which is why I have arranged for Stormark to watch over my country while I'm away. Without this relationship, Sangun might not be celebrating its seventh birthday next year.
3. The King of Sangun and Riskai is also a Jarl, Minister and Field Marshal in Stormark. Now if the idea of a sovereign ruler serving as a minister in a foreign government sounds a little far fetched, consider the 19th century Prince of Liechtenstein, who despite being a member of the Confederation of the Rhine, was also a senior general in the enemy Austrian Army!
So...the simple answer why I use Stormark's fora: convenience!
That's all very well...but aren't you claiming some of Stormark's land? What's going on with that?
Riskai (the area depicted in the upper map) was originally a part of Stormark which, in the course of the last two years, gradually evolved into an independent state.
Sangun (the area depicted in the lower map) is slightly more complicated. Basically, some weeks ago I mentioned in passing to Harald that I would like to do more with Sangun, but felt constrained because it wasn't officially mapped. In a very kind gesture, Harald immediately came here and made a claim on Sangun's behalf. Unfortunately, after checking my records, I realised that at the time Sangun was not formally linked to Stormark (the association between Sangun and Stormark had actually been repealed back in 2010), which prompted a flurry of new legislation in an effort to correct the oversight.
In other words, a simple case of miscommunication between myself and Harald, for which I take full responsibility, and which I have been trying to put right ever since. This claim is part of that process.
Anyway...I hope all that helps to remove some of the confusion!
Whilst on the subject of complexity, I notice there is some confusion concerning my claim and what it represents, for which I do apologise. In an effort to clarify matters, I'd like to address the following points:
Is Sangun and Riskai an independent state or a dependency of Stormark?
It is an independent, sovereign state that has entered into a free association with Stormark. The relationship is broadly analogous to that of the USA and the Federated States of Micronesia (which is a UN member state), with the exception that Stormark is not wholly responsible for Sangun and Riskai's defence- it is merely required to support it.
If Sangun and Riskai is an independent state, why are you asking for it to be striped with Stormark's colour as well as receiving its own?
It seems a shame for the MCS to have all these symbols it rarely uses, so I'm keen to use the diagonal striping to represent the ongoing relationship with Stormark. However, owing to the small and geographically dispersed nature of Sangun and Riskai's territory, I also feel it makes more sense for it to have its own designated colour rather than cluttering up the map with the various labels that would otherwise be necessary. In other words, assigning it a unique colour removes the need to write 'Sangun and Riskai' in at least two places.
Don't you have your own forum?
Yes, I do! However, it hasn't seen much use since 2007 and I'm currently in the process of converting it into an archive, in case of future problems with Stormark's fora.
But if you have your own forum, why use Stormark's?
1. Few things are less appealing than a big, empty forum with one or two people rattling around trying desperately to make the place look alive. Being hosted by Stormark, by contrast, ensures a reasonable flow of visitors and enables me to benefit from their feedback.
2. Due to RL constraints, I sometimes have to take a LOA. For what is effectively a one-person nation, this would be disastrous- which is why I have arranged for Stormark to watch over my country while I'm away. Without this relationship, Sangun might not be celebrating its seventh birthday next year.
3. The King of Sangun and Riskai is also a Jarl, Minister and Field Marshal in Stormark. Now if the idea of a sovereign ruler serving as a minister in a foreign government sounds a little far fetched, consider the 19th century Prince of Liechtenstein, who despite being a member of the Confederation of the Rhine, was also a senior general in the enemy Austrian Army!
So...the simple answer why I use Stormark's fora: convenience!
That's all very well...but aren't you claiming some of Stormark's land? What's going on with that?
Riskai (the area depicted in the upper map) was originally a part of Stormark which, in the course of the last two years, gradually evolved into an independent state.
Sangun (the area depicted in the lower map) is slightly more complicated. Basically, some weeks ago I mentioned in passing to Harald that I would like to do more with Sangun, but felt constrained because it wasn't officially mapped. In a very kind gesture, Harald immediately came here and made a claim on Sangun's behalf. Unfortunately, after checking my records, I realised that at the time Sangun was not formally linked to Stormark (the association between Sangun and Stormark had actually been repealed back in 2010), which prompted a flurry of new legislation in an effort to correct the oversight.
In other words, a simple case of miscommunication between myself and Harald, for which I take full responsibility, and which I have been trying to put right ever since. This claim is part of that process.
Anyway...I hope all that helps to remove some of the confusion!
Rossheim, who acts as various members of the eponymous family including but not limited to:
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles
- Guido Zambelis
- Posts: 2854
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:26 pm
Re: Sangun and Riskai Claim
The fact that certain symbols are rarely used is not an argument for using them...Sadamara wrote: If Sangun and Riskai is an independent state, why are you asking for it to be striped with Stormark's colour as well as receiving its own?
It seems a shame for the MCS to have all these symbols it rarely uses, so I'm keen to use the diagonal striping to represent the ongoing relationship with Stormark. However, owing to the small and geographically dispersed nature of Sangun and Riskai's territory, I also feel it makes more sense for it to have its own designated colour rather than cluttering up the map with the various labels that would otherwise be necessary. In other words, assigning it a unique colour removes the need to write 'Sangun and Riskai' in at least two places.
It should not have labels, because you are your own own separate state. That Stormark contributes to your defence makes you no different to any other state whose security is guaranteed by another.
Re: Sangun and Riskai Claim
Our relationship with Stormark goes a little deeper than that...which is why I originally requested the diagonal striping. I might also add that this claim is at least partly about the MCS recognising Sangun and Riskai's status as a separate, sovereign state.
So...in an effort to simplify a complicated matter, I shall say this: if the MCS believes it is correct to stripe our territory with Stormark's colour as well as our own, then I am happy with that. If, on the other hand, the MCS feels that this would not be appropriate and wishes to depict our territory solely in our own colour (as was the case with Hurmu), then I will be happy with that also.
Ultimately it is up to the Council to determine what system best represents the situation on the ground; so on the question of Stripes vs. No Stripes, I shall defer to their expert opinion!
So...in an effort to simplify a complicated matter, I shall say this: if the MCS believes it is correct to stripe our territory with Stormark's colour as well as our own, then I am happy with that. If, on the other hand, the MCS feels that this would not be appropriate and wishes to depict our territory solely in our own colour (as was the case with Hurmu), then I will be happy with that also.
Ultimately it is up to the Council to determine what system best represents the situation on the ground; so on the question of Stripes vs. No Stripes, I shall defer to their expert opinion!
Rossheim, who acts as various members of the eponymous family including but not limited to:
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles
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Re: Sangun and Riskai Claim
I personally think the diagonal stripes match Sangun-Riskai's status best. If their relationship with Stormark goes deeper than just mutual defence and their claim isn't disputed (which means the vertical stripes aren't applicable), then I think "satellite state" markings closest reflect their situation...
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Re: Sangun and Riskai Claim
Welcome to Micras (officially)!
Re: Sangun and Riskai Claim
Many thanks! I am most grateful to the Council...
Rossheim, who acts as various members of the eponymous family including but not limited to:
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles
*The Lichqueens Mira Raynora Major, Mira Raynora Minor and Lyssansa of Lichbrook
*The Kings Max I of Leichenberg and Max II of Steeria
*The King Sadamara Aptrgangr of Riskai and the Idunn Isles