[NAT] Mod
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Re: [NAT] Mod
I cannot provide you with any evidence or anything like that as I haven't really been part of the discussion, though from my understanding it has been in talks for at least a couple weeks. Besides, nowhere in the Charter of the MCS states any such proof of planning needs to be provided. I don't know about your personal system though If it's a role play thing you're worried about, I'm sure we can work out some sort of story behind it with you to wrap it in a nice red bow.The system which I've personally agreed to is one which requires that nations clearly and obviously put more than a day's thought into their claims, which should serve as realistic representations of their collective bodies of work. Hence the work that I do to make my product good, and my claims meaningful. When claims such as this get approved, it demeans and devalues the actual work which is done by others. It sends the message that you don't actually have to work on your claims. At least not if you're affiliated with certain nations, perhaps.
Again, all I've done is asked for a single bit of evidence that this claim has been in the works for more than the past few days, and that you have a practical explanation for addressing the presence the extensive Pallisican and Haifain regional occupation and industry. It seems you haven't thought about this, else you'd have evidence that you have been working on it. So, where is it?
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Re: [NAT] Mod
So maybe they've been talking about doing some development? Couldn't they have been developing their claims by working to drive out my forces? They haven't even made an effort to do so. That would have been obvious, transparent development which everyone could agree upon as being meaningful and worthy of expansion. As such, any mutually agreed story-line which lends itself to this claim requires that we agree that my forces are defeated in all of these lands. I'm not willing to agree to that, given the effort which your forces have put in to the job. I will push back against any story-line that espouses the complete defeat of my forces on this front.Ryker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:07 am
I cannot provide you with any evidence or anything like that as I haven't really been part of the discussion, though from my understanding it has been in talks for at least a couple weeks. Besides, nowhere in the Charter of the MCS states any such proof of planning needs to be provided. I don't know about your personal system though If it's a role play thing you're worried about, I'm sure we can work out some sort of story behind it with you to wrap it in a nice red bow.
""YJD: Een Recwar is prima zolang Bijaro niet deelneemt."
Re: [NAT] Mod
This, really.Ryker wrote:If you weren't comfortable with the possibility of others claiming the land, you could have claimed it at any time.
The development mentioned would most likely have led the Council to consider a PSC claim beyond challenge, had it actually been made. Leaving land Green while trying to develop it is ultimately a gamble against others having an interest in it... a gamble which has been lost, in this case. The same applies for new nations with a desired location serving out their month's maturation period, but that's another discussion and at any rate, PSC is far from a new nation and the precedent as long as I can remember has been for existing members to claim an expansion first before throwing the main effort into its development, precisely to avoid situations like this.
If you're really unwilling to let this go (the bloating of this thread into a second page essentially confirming this) a formal request for the land to be marked disputed would seem to be the most sensible option until the matter can be settled between the two claimants.
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Re: [NAT] Mod
The way I see it, the claim has been submitted, the work to secure it now begins. I'll announce the forces being committed to capturing the new territories later today, essentially the militia raised in Normark plus some assets from out of theatre, nothing entirely new or previously undeclared. I'd be content to war-game (rather than recwar) this on the forum to establish the narrative that is then recorded on the wiki.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
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Re: [NAT] Mod
Just as an aside, if not already clear, the MCS judges claims. It doesn't mediate disputes over who does what in land they don't own. If you want to sort in-sim things between you, that's your prerogative, but as far the mapping side goes, if Natopia claim it, it's theirs and only theirs...
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Re: [NAT] Mod
Again, my concern isn't that Natopia is claiming the land, it's the manner in which they're claiming the land. They did absolutely nothing to secure this land over the course of the war or before now they're pretending through this claim that they've won a total victory. I don't accept it, and I will not relocate my forces or industry. There is no story or development to support this claim, and it is a petty effort to create an illusion of victory.Yastreb wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:31 am
The development mentioned would most likely have led the Council to consider a PSC claim beyond challenge, had it actually been made. Leaving land Green while trying to develop it is ultimately a gamble against others having an interest in it... a gamble which has been lost, in this case. The same
You have had over a month to develop this claim via the war. You either were unable or unwilling to do so. Now you're doing this in order to create the illusion that you've won the war. You haven't done shit, and you absolutely will not drive my forces or industry from these lands without some type of treaty between our nations. The work begins now? Why didn't it begin a month ago?Thorgils Tarjeisson wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:51 pmThe way I see it, the claim has been submitted, the work to secure it now begins. I'll announce the forces being committed to capturing the new territories later today, essentially the militia raised in Normark plus some assets from out of theatre, nothing entirely new or previously undeclared. I'd be content to war-game (rather than recwar) this on the forum to establish the narrative that is then recorded on the wiki.
Sure, and at one point the MCS actually judged claims on the basis of quality and work. Again, I don't give a shit that Natopia is claiming this land. I'm pissed off at how it's being done.Craitman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:00 pmJust as an aside, if not already clear, the MCS judges claims. It doesn't mediate disputes over who does what in land they don't own. If you want to sort in-sim things between you, that's your prerogative, but as far the mapping side goes, if Natopia claim it, it's theirs and only theirs...
""YJD: Een Recwar is prima zolang Bijaro niet deelneemt."
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Re: [NAT] Mod
Now you're just coming across as an arse.NewZimiaGov wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:03 pmAgain, my concern isn't that Natopia is claiming the land, it's the manner in which they're claiming the land. They did absolutely nothing to secure this land over the course of the war or before now they're pretending through this claim that they've won a total victory. I don't accept it, and I will not relocate my forces or industry. There is no story or development to support this claim, and it is a petty effort to create an illusion of victory.Yastreb wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:31 am
The development mentioned would most likely have led the Council to consider a PSC claim beyond challenge, had it actually been made. Leaving land Green while trying to develop it is ultimately a gamble against others having an interest in it... a gamble which has been lost, in this case. The same
You have had over a month to develop this claim via the war. You either were unable or unwilling to do so. Now you're doing this in order to create the illusion that you've won the war. You haven't done shit, and you absolutely will not drive my forces or industry from these lands without some type of treaty between our nations. The work begins now? Why didn't it begin a month ago?Thorgils Tarjeisson wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:51 pmThe way I see it, the claim has been submitted, the work to secure it now begins. I'll announce the forces being committed to capturing the new territories later today, essentially the militia raised in Normark plus some assets from out of theatre, nothing entirely new or previously undeclared. I'd be content to war-game (rather than recwar) this on the forum to establish the narrative that is then recorded on the wiki.
Sure, and at one point the MCS actually judged claims on the basis of quality and work. Again, I don't give a shit that Natopia is claiming this land. I'm pissed off at how it's being done.Craitman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:00 pmJust as an aside, if not already clear, the MCS judges claims. It doesn't mediate disputes over who does what in land they don't own. If you want to sort in-sim things between you, that's your prerogative, but as far the mapping side goes, if Natopia claim it, it's theirs and only theirs...
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
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Re: [NAT] Mod
I really don't care. You haven't left me a lot of choice. Had you made an effort during the war to actually claim and control these lands there'd be no issue here. You haven't done so, so this is basically cheating. You're erasing, or whitewashing the entire history of the war in this region, and it is transparent as fuck.
""YJD: Een Recwar is prima zolang Bijaro niet deelneemt."
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Re: [NAT] Mod
Oh get over yourself. You've consistently ignored counter-moves on our part at Riddersborg, against Voorpost and elsewhere, whilst all the while claiming to be raiding "generally", stealing advanced technology effortlessly, conducting human sacrifices, selling babies and other absurd shit. Frankly mate, your efforts deserve to be whitewashed.
This is where narrative constructs tend to unravel I guess.
This is where narrative constructs tend to unravel I guess.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
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Re: [NAT] Mod
What counter-measures have you taken which I've ignored? I've calculated losses after every engagement between our forces. I've given myself even more losses as a result of our engagements than is, in some cases, even realistic. 12,000 casualties as a result of the Ardclach orbital strike? That is excessive. But hey, I was playing the game in good faith. My mistake.
Edit: I love that I'm being accused of making war here. Here I thought we were at war...
I have been doing all of these things, and I will continue to, and there is nothing you can do about it except offer a treaty. This claim sure as hell won't stop me. If you don't like what I've done, you should have reached out a month ago.whilst all the while claiming to be raiding "generally", conducting human sacrifices, selling babies and other absurd shit. Frankly mate, your efforts deserve to be whitewashed.
Edit: I love that I'm being accused of making war here. Here I thought we were at war...
""YJD: Een Recwar is prima zolang Bijaro niet deelneemt."
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Re: [NAT] Mod
I think a treaty is the last thing we will be offering at this stage.
As for "good faith", you know the arse about face thing from this, amongst other instances, is your tendency to hijack control of the citizens and characters of your opponents to make them act how you want - isn't that slightly godmodding? You exhausted our supply of good faith long before this adjustment claim was submitted.
As for "good faith", you know the arse about face thing from this, amongst other instances, is your tendency to hijack control of the citizens and characters of your opponents to make them act how you want - isn't that slightly godmodding? You exhausted our supply of good faith long before this adjustment claim was submitted.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
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Re: [NAT] Mod
At least we know you aren't actually interested in controlling any of these lands then.Thorgils Tarjeisson wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:35 pmI think a treaty is the last thing we will be offering at this stage.
You know the arse about face thing from this, amongst other instances, is your tendency to hijack control of the citizens and characters of your opponents to make them act how you want - isn't that slightly godmodding?
If it's godmodding then you should have issued a complaint the first time I did it. Clearly it hasn't been an issue for the past 1.5 months that we've been at war.
Edit: I do like that you're now owning up to the spiteful motivations behind this claim. It isn't personal, they said.
""YJD: Een Recwar is prima zolang Bijaro niet deelneemt."
Re: [NAT] Mod
It really isn't personal though, nothing in this hobby ever is.
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Re: [NAT] Mod
That is your refrain, I realize, but it clearly isn't true. This claim reeks of spite. You couldn't figure out a way to fight me, so you're going to spitefully pretend that the war didn't happen, or that you somehow won when you didn't even come close.
""YJD: Een Recwar is prima zolang Bijaro niet deelneemt."
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Re: [NAT] Mod
At the moment the spite and the anger seems to be all on you, old boy.NewZimiaGov wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:09 pmThat is your refrain, I realize, but it clearly isn't true. This claim reeks of spite. You couldn't figure out a way to fight me, so you're going to spitefully pretend that the war didn't happen, or that you somehow won when you didn't even come close.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.